Utter Disaster -- is the dream over?
#11
Prime Minister/Moderator

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,906
Likes: 692
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
During indoc at this new job, they had an interesting presentation about psychology and "lotus of control." Do you believe you control what happens to you? You have internal lotus. Do you believe you have little control, and external variables control your fate, then you are an external lotus person. All this to say, when you fail a checkride, are you the person who says, "If I had just gotten the brake fault message instead of the LH aileron fail, I would have passed," or "my seatfill screwed up the hold, it's not my fault," or "that examiner screwed me." That's an external lotus mindset and it will get you nowhere. Or are you the type of person who says, "What did I mess up? What can I do differently?"
Everybody has some of both. My outlook would be that pilots need to have more internal locus of control.
External locus of control actually has it's place... some things you simply cannot control or influence, and it's counter-productive to worry about them.
"grant to us the serenity of mind to accept that which cannot be changed, courage to change that which can be changed, and wisdom to know the one from the other through"
This struck a chord with me, and I've been trying to do some serious reflecting as to what I messed up on the checkrides, and what I can do to change it. I have come up with three main areas I need improvement on, and I'd like the advice of anyone who feels they have insight to provide:
#1) My nervousness for checkrides is off the charts, and it's getting worse. I've always been nervous about them, but I haven't had any issues with checkrides until this upgrade. I think it's because it's one thing to surpress your nerves and perform at an FO level, or whatever, but it's another thing to be the center of the show. I need to figure out a way to suppress or compartmentalize my nerves. Any ideas?
#1) My nervousness for checkrides is off the charts, and it's getting worse. I've always been nervous about them, but I haven't had any issues with checkrides until this upgrade. I think it's because it's one thing to surpress your nerves and perform at an FO level, or whatever, but it's another thing to be the center of the show. I need to figure out a way to suppress or compartmentalize my nerves. Any ideas?
#2) My demeanor, lack of leadership, lack of command authority, whatever you want to call it. This is affected by nerves, of course, but I've also always been a quiet, soft spoken person. I need to figure out a way to at least appear more confident, etc. Does anyone have any ideas for leadership courses, or books, etc?
#3) (This may be a hybrid of the first two, but I feel it's worth discussing.) I make odd decisions during these checkrides that I wouldn't do in real life. An example would be a situation in which we know we're diverting. But before I divert I sit there and calculate bingo, even though nobody is telling us to hold (in other words, there is no need to calculate bingo). Why? Who knows?!? Because that's what we did every time in the sim lessons, I guess. Apparently I make my decisions based on what I think the examiner wants to see, rather than what truly pertains to the scenario! My decision making in these events is, like I said, affected by nerves, but I need a way of correctly making a common sense decision, and not overthinking this stuff.
Anyone who’s been through Air Force pilot training knows you don’t just coast through unless you have at least some modicum of skill. Hand skills haven’t been the issue, nor knowledge or lack of studying. Checkrides haven’t been an issue either, until this upgrade attempt.
#12
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 476
Likes: 31
Hello,
It's been a rough year. I'll be as candid as possible, in hopes of receiving the most accurate feedback.
I've been employed at Republic Airways for over 6 years as an FO. I also fly for the Air National Guard. This has affected my progression to captain at Republic, partially because I took military leave for a couple years while I was activated, and partially because I find it challenging to stay current in two jets. It's affected my progression in both realms, really. I was told by my squadron commander that upgrading to PIC was basically off the table. So that obviously does not look good on the resume, to be the eternal co-pilot at the ANG.
So within the last year, I switched gears back to the airline, and returned to Republic to pursue upgrade there instead. I studied my ass off, and it was going well. I even made the comment that I don't know how people fail LOE's because everything is repeatable, and as long as you don't crash or exceed repeat attempts, how could you fail? Well, I guess karma hit me like a freight train, because I failed the LOE. In summary, it was a lack of confidence during the emergency procedure (second guessing decisions) and also he said taxiing was sloppy (I was taxiing like I taxi the C-17, which you pivot after the turn). So he said lets repeat those two things. We went through another emergency, and it went ok, now all that was left was taxiing and I'd be on my way. I was given taxi instructions etc etc hold short of G. I'm taxiing along, see G at the last second and slam on the brakes. Examiner said, your nose is sticking out onto G...sorry, you fail.
They gave me two review sims, but I lost my confidence and was noticeably rattled, so the decision was made to return me to the right seat, rather than sign me off for the LOE. I was devastated, but vowed to return as soon as possible, stronger than before.
I recently reattempted upgrade. Same as before, everything going fine up to the LOE. The LOE was going good, during the diversion, I got a LH AILERON FAIL message (in the E175, this is an advisory message with no aural tone...not a caution or warning). I finished the checklist I was doing, and then referenced the QRH to look up the advisory message. During this time we were on vectors. The first line of the QRH says limit bank to 25 degrees. So I select Half Bank, and we finish the procedure and proceed without further incident. Taxi in, write it up, and I think I'm done, but the examiner says "before you ran the procedure, you banked more than 25 degrees 3 or 4 times, that's an 'undesired aircraft state,' sorry, you fail." No repeats, just clean kill. Now I'm panicking. I get signed off for one more attempt, but I go in completely rattled again, knowing my career and now my job are on the line, and my nervousness shows. I didn't make any specific egregious error, just a lot of second-guessing myself, mumbling, thinking out loud, etc. We finish the ride, the examiner simply says that didn't go well. I ask, do I get any repeats? And he says no there's not enough time, too many areas to repeat (communication, leadership, SA, etc.).
So now I have failed this LOE three times. Not only is my career obviously in jeopardy, but now my job as well. Devastation and shame are not strong enough words. My wife doesn't look at me the same, and I don't look at myself the same in the mirror.
Any advice at where to go from here? I'm awaiting a phone call for my article 18 hearing, which will determine whether to fire me or not. A union rep that I talked to said the normal procedure after two failed upgrade attempts is termination. What should I do? I feel that I am not marketable to the majors, let alone any legacy carrier. That is out the window. I feel my only chance is to jump ship to another regional before they fire me, and maybe even they won't hire me. I've put my apps in for a few direct entry captain positions. I need to show that I can upgrade. Does anyone have any experience with something this bad, that had a happy ending?
Should I just give up? Is there a way forward? Is it time to switch careers? Any advice that would talk me off the ledge would be appreciated.
It's been a rough year. I'll be as candid as possible, in hopes of receiving the most accurate feedback.
I've been employed at Republic Airways for over 6 years as an FO. I also fly for the Air National Guard. This has affected my progression to captain at Republic, partially because I took military leave for a couple years while I was activated, and partially because I find it challenging to stay current in two jets. It's affected my progression in both realms, really. I was told by my squadron commander that upgrading to PIC was basically off the table. So that obviously does not look good on the resume, to be the eternal co-pilot at the ANG.
So within the last year, I switched gears back to the airline, and returned to Republic to pursue upgrade there instead. I studied my ass off, and it was going well. I even made the comment that I don't know how people fail LOE's because everything is repeatable, and as long as you don't crash or exceed repeat attempts, how could you fail? Well, I guess karma hit me like a freight train, because I failed the LOE. In summary, it was a lack of confidence during the emergency procedure (second guessing decisions) and also he said taxiing was sloppy (I was taxiing like I taxi the C-17, which you pivot after the turn). So he said lets repeat those two things. We went through another emergency, and it went ok, now all that was left was taxiing and I'd be on my way. I was given taxi instructions etc etc hold short of G. I'm taxiing along, see G at the last second and slam on the brakes. Examiner said, your nose is sticking out onto G...sorry, you fail.
They gave me two review sims, but I lost my confidence and was noticeably rattled, so the decision was made to return me to the right seat, rather than sign me off for the LOE. I was devastated, but vowed to return as soon as possible, stronger than before.
I recently reattempted upgrade. Same as before, everything going fine up to the LOE. The LOE was going good, during the diversion, I got a LH AILERON FAIL message (in the E175, this is an advisory message with no aural tone...not a caution or warning). I finished the checklist I was doing, and then referenced the QRH to look up the advisory message. During this time we were on vectors. The first line of the QRH says limit bank to 25 degrees. So I select Half Bank, and we finish the procedure and proceed without further incident. Taxi in, write it up, and I think I'm done, but the examiner says "before you ran the procedure, you banked more than 25 degrees 3 or 4 times, that's an 'undesired aircraft state,' sorry, you fail." No repeats, just clean kill. Now I'm panicking. I get signed off for one more attempt, but I go in completely rattled again, knowing my career and now my job are on the line, and my nervousness shows. I didn't make any specific egregious error, just a lot of second-guessing myself, mumbling, thinking out loud, etc. We finish the ride, the examiner simply says that didn't go well. I ask, do I get any repeats? And he says no there's not enough time, too many areas to repeat (communication, leadership, SA, etc.).
So now I have failed this LOE three times. Not only is my career obviously in jeopardy, but now my job as well. Devastation and shame are not strong enough words. My wife doesn't look at me the same, and I don't look at myself the same in the mirror.
Any advice at where to go from here? I'm awaiting a phone call for my article 18 hearing, which will determine whether to fire me or not. A union rep that I talked to said the normal procedure after two failed upgrade attempts is termination. What should I do? I feel that I am not marketable to the majors, let alone any legacy carrier. That is out the window. I feel my only chance is to jump ship to another regional before they fire me, and maybe even they won't hire me. I've put my apps in for a few direct entry captain positions. I need to show that I can upgrade. Does anyone have any experience with something this bad, that had a happy ending?
Should I just give up? Is there a way forward? Is it time to switch careers? Any advice that would talk me off the ledge would be appreciated.
Don’t be afraid to get a little ‘assertive’ with your captains either. Now, I’m not saying to be anti authoritative towards the captain lol, rather, speak up on suggestions to something that you think may be better than what the captain decides on. An example would be the other day, we were number 12 or 13 in line for takeoff. Due to wx closing off the departure routes for several southbound departures, we ended up getting stuck behind several of these southbound departures while they were getting rerouted. A few aircraft in front of us were requesting an intersection departure from intersections that aren’t normally used on a typical day when the line isn’t held up. If they could squeeze by the large jet in front of them, they would accept a clearance for an intersection departure. I saw several other RJ’s doing this, and realized we would have a huge advantage on getting out a lot quicker vs waiting for the front of the line to continue moving. The rj in front of us took off at the intersection next to them. At this point i noticed the captain didn’t seem like he was interested in doing that. But I thought, if I were captain, I would run some numbers for that intersection to see if we could do it, and if we can, we’re going. So I asked the captain if he wanted me to run numbers for our T/O data and if we could do it, to ask the controller if we could take the runway at this intersection. Because I don’t feel like waiting another 20-30 minutes for the heavy’s in front to take off. He said yea go ahead and run some numbers and while I was doing that the controller started clearing the #1 aircraft in the front for takeoff so we continued. But it was worth a shot, and each time I’ve done this with suggestions to the captain it helps to build my command confidence.
It sounds to me like a confidence issue, no doubt. I think a lack of PIC experience doesn’t help either. But you can overcome that with suggestions mentioned from everyone here.
It also sounds like you’re more introverted. That’s not a bad thing, at all. I myself am very introverted. Sometimes I feel like I’m the most introverted dude in the room. I can kinda relate to you on the issue with nerves hitting you, but not in the same way though. What I mean is, I can get kinda nervous in huge crowds of people or certain social situations. However, you put me in a room for a knowledge validation, or in the sim for an LOE/MV, I can calm myself pretty well. I can knock it out of the park. I look at evaluations as just another flight. I just ignore the guy behind me doing the evaluating. Are there some nerves? Absolutely. But I have found I can better control them in evaluations. However, outside of these settings, I find myself sometimes getting a little nervous. Especially around super outgoing, high strung people that look like they’ve had like 5 of those 5 hour energy drinks. Or if there’s large crowds of people. I can get overstimulated pretty easily by too much social interaction or if it goes on for just a couple hours or so. This usually happens after a long day, and I haven’t slept as well, been slacking on exercising regularly, or, if I’ve had too much caffeine.
Which brings me to my next point. When I go into a checkride, I have a ‘no caffeine’ policy for myself until after the checkride. Your anxiety levels are already elevated for a checkride, why make that worse by drinking coffee or other caffeinated drinks which are known to raise anxiety levels in a lot of people? If you’re a heavy coffee drinker, or even drink just a little bit of it, and you do this on the day of checkrides, my recommendation going forward is to stop. Some may say that this is kinda silly to mention this. But caffeine can really, really affect the nerves in some people in certain situations. It really does. Whenever I go for an interview, a checkride, or whenever I’m anticipating being around a lot of people for an event or a social gathering, I will limit or even cut out caffeine completely. I notice that it definitely helps. I say this because when I’m on the job in day to day line operations, I drink lots of coffee lol. Like, a lot. Even when I’m well rested, I still find myself drinking it more than I should. But whenever I’m in the above mentioned situations, it doesn’t help me, so I drop caffeine.
All in all, it sounds like you’re aware that checkrides/evaluations are really triggering the nerves more than they should, but you aren’t sure how to manage that. This is all mental. It’s in your control. I know that’s easier said than done, but you gotta practice and prepare being the one in command and being in charge, not overthinking stuff, and go into your next evaluation as if it were a real flight, and not just a check ride. The more you look at it like it’s a ‘checkride’ and not another flight, the more the nerves will get hit.
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