Calabre

Hello,
It's been a rough year. I'll be as candid as possible, in hopes of receiving the most accurate feedback.

I've been employed at Republic Airways for over 6 years as an FO. I also fly for the Air National Guard. This has affected my progression to captain at Republic, partially because I took military leave for a couple years while I was activated, and partially because I find it challenging to stay current in two jets. It's affected my progression in both realms, really. I was told by my squadron commander that upgrading to PIC was basically off the table. So that obviously does not look good on the resume, to be the eternal co-pilot at the ANG.

So within the last year, I switched gears back to the airline, and returned to Republic to pursue upgrade there instead. I studied my ass off, and it was going well. I even made the comment that I don't know how people fail LOE's because everything is repeatable, and as long as you don't crash or exceed repeat attempts, how could you fail? Well, I guess karma hit me like a freight train, because I failed the LOE. In summary, it was a lack of confidence during the emergency procedure (second guessing decisions) and also he said taxiing was sloppy (I was taxiing like I taxi the C-17, which you pivot after the turn). So he said lets repeat those two things. We went through another emergency, and it went ok, now all that was left was taxiing and I'd be on my way. I was given taxi instructions etc etc hold short of G. I'm taxiing along, see G at the last second and slam on the brakes. Examiner said, your nose is sticking out onto G...sorry, you fail.

They gave me two review sims, but I lost my confidence and was noticeably rattled, so the decision was made to return me to the right seat, rather than sign me off for the LOE. I was devastated, but vowed to return as soon as possible, stronger than before.

I recently reattempted upgrade. Same as before, everything going fine up to the LOE. The LOE was going good, during the diversion, I got a LH AILERON FAIL message (in the E175, this is an advisory message with no aural tone...not a caution or warning). I finished the checklist I was doing, and then referenced the QRH to look up the advisory message. During this time we were on vectors. The first line of the QRH says limit bank to 25 degrees. So I select Half Bank, and we finish the procedure and proceed without further incident. Taxi in, write it up, and I think I'm done, but the examiner says "before you ran the procedure, you banked more than 25 degrees 3 or 4 times, that's an 'undesired aircraft state,' sorry, you fail." No repeats, just clean kill. Now I'm panicking. I get signed off for one more attempt, but I go in completely rattled again, knowing my career and now my job are on the line, and my nervousness shows. I didn't make any specific egregious error, just a lot of second-guessing myself, mumbling, thinking out loud, etc. We finish the ride, the examiner simply says that didn't go well. I ask, do I get any repeats? And he says no there's not enough time, too many areas to repeat (communication, leadership, SA, etc.).

So now I have failed this LOE three times. Not only is my career obviously in jeopardy, but now my job as well. Devastation and shame are not strong enough words. My wife doesn't look at me the same, and I don't look at myself the same in the mirror.

Any advice at where to go from here? I'm awaiting a phone call for my article 18 hearing, which will determine whether to fire me or not. A union rep that I talked to said the normal procedure after two failed upgrade attempts is termination. What should I do? I feel that I am not marketable to the majors, let alone any legacy carrier. That is out the window. I feel my only chance is to jump ship to another regional before they fire me, and maybe even they won't hire me. I've put my apps in for a few direct entry captain positions. I need to show that I can upgrade. Does anyone have any experience with something this bad, that had a happy ending?

Should I just give up? Is there a way forward? Is it time to switch careers? Any advice that would talk me off the ledge would be appreciated.

tallpilot

Well that is quite the first post. First off don't give up but so realize that lack of confidence is a major red flag for aircraft commanders both military and civilian. I believe you can gain it with more experience but that is obviously the overarching problem here.

I don't like the little gotcha with the bank angle. Maybe there is gouge about that you could have known if it's a common technique. It doesn't matter if you had a fair shake or not as far as moving forward with your career but perhaps the union can use it to save your job.

Keep flying, hopefully at Republic but certainly in the guard. Prove that you can learn confident decision making. The place to do that is in the right seat.

JohnBurke

You didn't indicate why the Guard advised that you won't upgrade. Was that a budget issue, or an airmanship issue?

Three upgrade attempts in a year? The most glaring problem I see, or the impression given, is one of judgement. Why rush into the checkrides like that, so close together, especially on the heels of not passing the first time? What prep did you take, or seek, for subsequent upgrades?

First of all; the most important thing: it's an airplane. An object. It's a job. Neither one is you; we are not our job. Neither of them are your identity. Neither are they the end of the world. There are a lot of airplanes and a lot of jobs. You can certainly explain your experiences later, but your immediate concern is putting food on the table. You are not a failure. You have had setbacks. You had failed training events, but the only thing this represents is a wake up call.

It's impossible to diagnose what went wrong, but the examiner apparently found multiple issues. Is this the same at the Guard? If so, then there may be an airmanship issue; this is something you need to focus on, and that may or may not be possible where you work now.

If you are able to retain your employment, I suspect that you'll be barred from further upgrade attempts, which means a permanent F/O position there. If that's the case, progression won't be possible, even if employment is, so you'd need to go somewhere else to progress. You need to take a long, hard introspective look at what prevented you upgrading at the Guard, and what led to these training issues. Don't go in for an upgrade if you're not ready. Not the first, nor second, nor especially a third. From your description, it sounds like this would be your first pilot in command experience, or captain experience. You may benefit from falling back to a job where you can be PIC and focus on doing the PIC role.

You will need to put distance between yourself and these events, and two things are required to do that: time, and experience. To make up for any training event failure, the farther in the rear-view mirror the better, but what really makes the past faded and dull is being able to show recent, current experience with a success...you need to establish a history of passing checkrides, and show command experience. Whethe that means finding a job in a Caravan or anything else, at this stage you need to focus on doing whatever you must to fix the problems that exist, and to build and demonstrate experience over time (no way around it) that show you can do the job.

While it may be possible to do a lateral hop over to another regional, you're going to a SIC position on the heels of the upgrade problems. Upgrading isn't about flying the airplane. It's about command. An upgrade checkride shouldn't be any more than what one would encounter on a proficiency check, or in other words, just the basics. The flying shouldn't be the problem, but the command part may be, which is flying and talking and deciding. It's about managing. I would suggest going for an evaluation or a proficiency check in a local flight school training device, like a Redbird, see what they have to say, and take it with an open mind. Before determining how to press on with the career, you need to target all the problem areas and fix those. It sounds like there may be a few.

You may be harder on yourself than those around you, and that won't help you at all. We're all perfectionists by nature, but it's often said that perfect is the enemy of good; we need to do a good job, but we can lose focus by either trying too hard for perfection, or by slapping ourselves for every failure to achieve perfection. Give yourself a break: take a deep breath, get an evaluation, and press on. You might consider buying that check airman a drink and some of his time to sit down after hours and discuss what you need to do, off the record. If you can't pin down that examiner, get someone else who can give good counsel and talk it out. A frank evaluation, no pride on the line, is worth its weight in gold.

Reviewing your comments again, I see you're thinking about going for a direct-entry captain position. You shouldn't have gone for the second and third upgrades, especially so quickly. You're not marketable presently for a legacy or major; it shouldn't even be a consideration, but you really shouldn't be thinking aobut direct-entry captain positions. You just failed three captain upgrades in a row, in short order. Wise up. Don't do that again.

Also...six years at Republic (four, if you were out two years on active)...should be enough time to learn the procedures and the airplane, especially if you're studying all the time in your spare time (as anyone intending to upgrade should do). On the heels of a third upgrade failure, you shouldn't be thinking about your next captain position (direct entry, etc). You should be thinking about establishing a solid track history (won't happen quickly...it requires time), and then making a sensible, calculated upgrade attempt. The training failures go in your pilot record database (PRD) for life. Don't put any more in there. Don't rush to move up. Establish a history of passing checkrides, first, and as already stated, do a very thorough, detailed anlysis of what got you here. These events can be overcome, but the three upgrade attempts show poor judgement in my opinion, especially in such short order, and the drive to go somewhere else right into a command position doesn't show much better judgment. Slow down. Think about this carefully. Get some assistance, a review, and some counseling with your union rep, a check airman, and an interview prep place that can help you begin to think about how to explain these events.

The only real way to explain any training failure is to own it, and to show what you learned from it. The proof comes in a long line of subsequent checkrides.

12oclockHi

It's often said we are our own worse enemies. Reading and than rereading your post, I sense a real lack of self confidence, and possiblely a strong passive personality that naturally tends to deferance to others. Aviators seem to be populated by a lot of people strongly to the other bent, confidence to the point of arrogance. Pilots can be some of the worse at sniffing out (what they consider weakness) and helping to undermine confidence. If you have airmenship issues, as JohnBurke mentioned, you need to find a solution, maybe limit yourself to only one job/aircraft. I never felt I'd could do my best if I had to mangemet two aircraft at the airline level and took my hat off to my fellow crew who did both their airline and ANG jobs. That said, I think you are having issues taking command and being the boss. Being assertive is something your employer can't really teach but the job demands. You can read about CRM and how to deal with crew from either seat, but you need to figure out how to make good decisions, properly accepting imput from the sources at your disposial and follow though with confidence, even if other options were available.

You have dug yourself a bit of a hole, you know that. It is not going to be easy to dig your way out. You are your biggest critic and as such the biggest determent to your future sucess is getting out of your own head, develop a backbone, and not be looking over your shoulder at your past mistakes. I know from personal experience, fear of failure is real and the reaction to that feeling often causes the outcome to be bad. Look within, prepare, and believe in yourself. Good luck!

Brickfire

I'm sorry. Sounds miserable.

You keep on doing the same thing and hoping for different results ... we have establidshed that isn't going to happen.

If the dream is the majors ... yeah that dream is over for now.

You need something different - 91, 91K, 135, ACMI ...
Leaving aviation altogether seems unwarranted - the majors strip mining the world has left a lot of opportunities elsewhere. Choose your poison.

METO Guido

^^^

I’m not dinging a ride for most of that, by itself. Sim world in line operation evals can be hybrid hell. Whereas loft modules typically fun. Why? Your narrative sums it up pretty well. Return to SIC line qual status. They owe you that much. Split before the next scheduled training event.

Calabre

I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to respond, especially JohnBurke for the long, thought out response. I apologize for not responding earlier. It's been a busy two months since I last posted. Losing your job right before Christmas when you have three kids, having to drive three days across the country for Christmas, explain to the in-laws why you're driving instead of flying like usual, drive back, all the while applying for jobs, and then starting training...it's been crazy, and to be frank, pretty miserable.

An update since I last posted, I resigned from Republic, as you may have discerned. I did this because every union rep I talked to ensured me that the article 18 meeting was merely a formality, and the decision was already made. A very disappointing end to a company I had enjoyed working for, for several years, to say the least. Obviously I immediately put my applications in everywhere, as I needed to put food on the table. I was pleasantly surprised to have 5 interviews lined up almost immediately at other regionals (thank God for the pilot shortage). I did the first two interviews and got two job offers. I was starting to feel a little more calm--it seemed like I was still a desirable asset. I turned town a third interview, but I went to the last 2 interviews because those were my top two choices. Unfortunately, after the interviews, both said thanks but no thanks. Even during this shortage, with thousands of hours of jet and part 121 time, they didn't want me (due to the checkride failures, I think it's safe to assume). All this to say what is abundantly clear--this is my last chance.

I feel very grateful to my new regional for giving me a second chance (I'm going to not say the company name for a few reasons, but it's irrelevant anyway). As I said, I have started training this month. I took the advice of friends and people here into consideration, and accepted a "high time FO" position rather than direct entry captain. That being said, I will get another attempt at upgrade soon...just a couple hundred hours. This is my last chance. I have to succeed...or at least go down giving it my all.

During indoc at this new job, they had an interesting presentation about psychology and "lotus of control." Do you believe you control what happens to you? You have internal lotus. Do you believe you have little control, and external variables control your fate, then you are an external lotus person. All this to say, when you fail a checkride, are you the person who says, "If I had just gotten the brake fault message instead of the LH aileron fail, I would have passed," or "my seatfill screwed up the hold, it's not my fault," or "that examiner screwed me." That's an external lotus mindset and it will get you nowhere. Or are you the type of person who says, "What did I mess up? What can I do differently?"

This struck a chord with me, and I've been trying to do some serious reflecting as to what I messed up on the checkrides, and what I can do to change it. I have come up with three main areas I need improvement on, and I'd like the advice of anyone who feels they have insight to provide:

#1) My nervousness for checkrides is off the charts, and it's getting worse. I've always been nervous about them, but I haven't had any issues with checkrides until this upgrade. I think it's because it's one thing to surpress your nerves and perform at an FO level, or whatever, but it's another thing to be the center of the show. I need to figure out a way to suppress or compartmentalize my nerves. Any ideas?

#2) My demeanor, lack of leadership, lack of command authority, whatever you want to call it. This is affected by nerves, of course, but I've also always been a quiet, soft spoken person. I need to figure out a way to at least appear more confident, etc. Does anyone have any ideas for leadership courses, or books, etc?

#3) (This may be a hybrid of the first two, but I feel it's worth discussing.) I make odd decisions during these checkrides that I wouldn't do in real life. An example would be a situation in which we know we're diverting. But before I divert I sit there and calculate bingo, even though nobody is telling us to hold (in other words, there is no need to calculate bingo). Why? Who knows?!? Because that's what we did every time in the sim lessons, I guess. Apparently I make my decisions based on what I think the examiner wants to see, rather than what truly pertains to the scenario! My decision making in these events is, like I said, affected by nerves, but I need a way of correctly making a common sense decision, and not overthinking this stuff.

Thanks again for the detailed response. I took your advice into serious consideration. I agree that I should not rush into an upgrade again, and largely based on your advice, I accepted a high time FO position rather than DEC. However (and this may seem ridiculous in light of my recent failures and this thread) it really is time for me to upgrade. If I were to give an honest assessment of myself, I don’t think airmanship is the issue. Anyone who’s been through Air Force pilot training knows you don’t just coast through unless you have at least some modicum of skill. Hand skills haven’t been the issue, nor knowledge or lack of studying. Checkrides haven’t been an issue either, until this upgrade attempt. I really feel the main issue is a lack of command like you said. And the lack of command is due to my nerves, in an acute sense, and due to my soft-spoken demeanor, in a chronic sense.

Yes this is accurate. I’d compare it to Charlie Brown, in the Thanksgiving special, when Peppermint Patty calls and invites herself over for dinner, and he doesn’t have the backbone to tell her he’s already got plans at his grandma’s house, and gets himself into a pickle with being committed to two dinners at the same time…and his sister tells him it’s his own fault because he’s so “wishy washy.” That’s me in the left seat.

Yes I agree. Not to make excuses, but just for some context of my frustration, I had a lot of gouge for the LOE…the three profiles were LGA, BWI, DCA, etc. But when I sit down the day of the LOE, the examiner hands me a release for ORD to CVG…apparently, unbeknownst to me, they had just updated the LOE profiles only a few days prior, and all my gouge and prep was invalid! Again, I’m trying not to make excuses, and like you said it doesn’t matter whether I feel it was fair or not. I just want to make what adjustments I can and move forward.



Thanks to everyone who’s managed to read this far! I appreciate any assistance you can provide! Have a great day.

tallpilot

Thanks for the update. I'm glad you got back on the horse. I know how stressful it is scrambling to find a job. I think you did the right thing not taking the DEC position. Once you finish training and consolidate I would try to figure out how to seat fill for simulator events. Not all airlines allow it but if yours does the more time you spend in the sim the more comfortable you will get. You need to do something to get past checkride nerves before you attempt the upgrade.

60av8tor

Glad you're back in the saddle. I resonate with some of your post because I tend to be a nervous Nelly where my own head can be my worst enemy. I've gotten much better over the years, and I've never had ramifications in my career because if it, but it used to put me through hell. I still have to play some mental chess to keep the nervousness and self-doubt at bay, but the mind is like a muscle and it gets easier with practice.

A book that helped me tremendously is Presence, by Amy Cuddy, about imposter syndrome. I lived with this my entire adult life. I wish I would have read this, or something similar, years ago.

https://www.amazon.com/Presence-Brin...SABEgJVH_D_BwE

Some of your comments seem to indicate that you fall into this category - not recommended for mil PIC, overthinking/second-guessing, doing things in the sim you wouldn't do on the line, etc. I really think this book will resonate.

Also, and it's easier to say than do, but you MUST make a concerted effort to treat the sim like you would on the line (for the most part), forgot there is someone over your shoulder. You know what to do, I'm certain of it. Your brain is sabotaging the execution in certain scenarios. Read the book. Best of luck to you!!

Droopy

I don't usually reply on these types of threads, but for some reason, here we go...

Background: Former military pilot, current 121 Captain. I've got some failed checkrides in my past and while I HATE going to the sims, I don't think I have any unusual anxiety about checkrides... Here's my free advice with a money back guarantee. It's now on the internet so it must be right.

1. Be a good FO. In addition to and knowing your duties, don't forget to pay attention to what the captain is doing. Whenever they are making a decision, decide in your mind what (and why) you would have done. If they do something different, instead of talking about CBA issues, COVID vaccines, and all the other useless time fillers, try asking the captain for their thought process when making the decision. You may or may not end up agreeing, but it can really expand your horizons on what considerations may matter when you change seats. Also, pay attention to their leadership styles. What works and what doesn't. You mentioned that you're the quiet type. The loud overbearing leadership style is actually not usually the best one to facilitate CRM. Use examples from folks you fly with to build yours so you can empower your FO's to be assets to you. And maybe do little things like remind you of max bank angles while you are finishing a previous checklist.

2.Checkrides (and other training events). We've all flown with folks that say to keep your mouth shut so you don't dime yourself out to an examiner. I've never believed that. The check airman has nothing better to do than notice every single little thing you screw up. If they hear you mumbling to yourself that you just got off altitude and see you were correcting, do you think that'll go better than if they have no idea if you even knew you screwed up? Do your best to forget that they're back there, fly the best airplane (not sim) that you can, identify and fix the inevitable mistakes that WILL happen, and let the chips fall where they will. If you are mentally engaged in flying, not wasting your time trying to evaluate your own ride, you'll be calmer and make better decisions.

3. Unless you're at a company that forces you to upgrade, realize that 121 flying is NOT like the military. No one is looking down at you or critizing you for "lack of career progression" if you don't upgrade "on time." Sit back as an FO, learn your job, pay attention to the captain, and upgrade when you're ready. For me, I knew I was ready when I kinda knew what most captains were going to do or say before they did, and knew when captains were forgetting things or considerations that I could help with. On the flip side, don't sit in the right seat until you get lazy from doing it in your sleep forever.

Just my thoughts...