Stay at 135 PDP, or go to CFI?
01-24-2024, 07:58 AM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2021
Posts: 562
I'm curious, to the OP, was the decision to work for this company an attempt to avoid instructing? Noting wrong with that, per se, because not everyone is cut out to teach. However, it is generally accepted to be the quickest path to a regional and then on to a major.
01-24-2024, 08:18 AM
#12
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2023
Posts: 17
So I'll take the unpopular opinion that yes, you're potentially squandering a good opportunity and will later regret just going with whatever builds your hours the fastest.
If you're just sprinting to a seniority number, then there's an argument to be made for getting there the fastest.
You've been offered an opportunity to learn your craft at a much higher level, much earlier than most get the chance. One should expect that making the step from barely used to minimally complex airplanes (or more likely these days, G1000 172s and Archers) to multiengine turbojets was going to involve an incredibly steep learning curve, and was not going to move as fast as watching students hammer the pattern in a piston single.
What are you doing to insure your success in the current role? If you can't log time right now, can you put yourself in a position to be logging time 6 months from now? What's the exchange rate in the quality of crewed turbojet time in the system, versus VFR single engine piston time? As a 1,500 hour pilot in what promises to be an increasingly competitive market, which pilot is more employable - the one with jet experience going in and out of major airports and airspace, or the one with 1200 hours of dual given (with 10,000 identical copies of the same resume in the in-box).
One can get a job right out of high school, and start making money / building seniority at a company right away. One can also delay working, enroll in school, and take undergraduate and advanced degrees. The hope for those who choose to pursue higher education, is that they will be on a steeper climb to success (having rotated further down the runway) once they engage the job market. Sometimes you invest up front without direct reward, to take a payoff later.
Its unfortunate thst people have told you that PDP time in a jet is worthless - because it isn't. Getting out into the real world of commercial aviation and experiencing it directly should never be considered inferior to spending time in the increasingly curated / heavily mitigated flight training sandboxes.
If and when the brakes get tapped on airline hiring (and it always happens eventually), would you prefer to be another 1450 hour 172/25 hour Seminole CFI, or to have a little deeper resume to discuss while competing for those spots?
If you're just sprinting to a seniority number, then there's an argument to be made for getting there the fastest.
You've been offered an opportunity to learn your craft at a much higher level, much earlier than most get the chance. One should expect that making the step from barely used to minimally complex airplanes (or more likely these days, G1000 172s and Archers) to multiengine turbojets was going to involve an incredibly steep learning curve, and was not going to move as fast as watching students hammer the pattern in a piston single.
What are you doing to insure your success in the current role? If you can't log time right now, can you put yourself in a position to be logging time 6 months from now? What's the exchange rate in the quality of crewed turbojet time in the system, versus VFR single engine piston time? As a 1,500 hour pilot in what promises to be an increasingly competitive market, which pilot is more employable - the one with jet experience going in and out of major airports and airspace, or the one with 1200 hours of dual given (with 10,000 identical copies of the same resume in the in-box).
One can get a job right out of high school, and start making money / building seniority at a company right away. One can also delay working, enroll in school, and take undergraduate and advanced degrees. The hope for those who choose to pursue higher education, is that they will be on a steeper climb to success (having rotated further down the runway) once they engage the job market. Sometimes you invest up front without direct reward, to take a payoff later.
Its unfortunate thst people have told you that PDP time in a jet is worthless - because it isn't. Getting out into the real world of commercial aviation and experiencing it directly should never be considered inferior to spending time in the increasingly curated / heavily mitigated flight training sandboxes.
If and when the brakes get tapped on airline hiring (and it always happens eventually), would you prefer to be another 1450 hour 172/25 hour Seminole CFI, or to have a little deeper resume to discuss while competing for those spots?
01-24-2024, 11:02 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,213
Originally Posted by Azpilot06
So I'll take the unpopular opinion that yes, you're potentially squandering a good opportunity and will later regret just going with whatever builds your hours the fastest.
If you're just sprinting to a seniority number, then there's an argument to be made for getting there the fastest.
You've been offered an opportunity to learn your craft at a much higher level, much earlier than most get the chance. One should expect that making the step from barely used to minimally complex airplanes (or more likely these days, G1000 172s and Archers) to multiengine turbojets was going to involve an incredibly steep learning curve, and was not going to move as fast as watching students hammer the pattern in a piston single.
What are you doing to insure your success in the current role? If you can't log time right now, can you put yourself in a position to be logging time 6 months from now? What's the exchange rate in the quality of crewed turbojet time in the system, versus VFR single engine piston time? As a 1,500 hour pilot in what promises to be an increasingly competitive market, which pilot is more employable - the one with jet experience going in and out of major airports and airspace, or the one with 1200 hours of dual given (with 10,000 identical copies of the same resume in the in-box).
One can get a job right out of high school, and start making money / building seniority at a company right away. One can also delay working, enroll in school, and take undergraduate and advanced degrees. The hope for those who choose to pursue higher education, is that they will be on a steeper climb to success (having rotated further down the runway) once they engage the job market. Sometimes you invest up front without direct reward, to take a payoff later.
Its unfortunate thst people have told you that PDP time in a jet is worthless - because it isn't. Getting out into the real world of commercial aviation and experiencing it directly should never be considered inferior to spending time in the increasingly curated / heavily mitigated flight training sandboxes.
If and when the brakes get tapped on airline hiring (and it always happens eventually), would you prefer to be another 1450 hour 172/25 hour Seminole CFI, or to have a little deeper resume to discuss while competing for those spots?
If you're just sprinting to a seniority number, then there's an argument to be made for getting there the fastest.
You've been offered an opportunity to learn your craft at a much higher level, much earlier than most get the chance. One should expect that making the step from barely used to minimally complex airplanes (or more likely these days, G1000 172s and Archers) to multiengine turbojets was going to involve an incredibly steep learning curve, and was not going to move as fast as watching students hammer the pattern in a piston single.
What are you doing to insure your success in the current role? If you can't log time right now, can you put yourself in a position to be logging time 6 months from now? What's the exchange rate in the quality of crewed turbojet time in the system, versus VFR single engine piston time? As a 1,500 hour pilot in what promises to be an increasingly competitive market, which pilot is more employable - the one with jet experience going in and out of major airports and airspace, or the one with 1200 hours of dual given (with 10,000 identical copies of the same resume in the in-box).
One can get a job right out of high school, and start making money / building seniority at a company right away. One can also delay working, enroll in school, and take undergraduate and advanced degrees. The hope for those who choose to pursue higher education, is that they will be on a steeper climb to success (having rotated further down the runway) once they engage the job market. Sometimes you invest up front without direct reward, to take a payoff later.
Its unfortunate thst people have told you that PDP time in a jet is worthless - because it isn't. Getting out into the real world of commercial aviation and experiencing it directly should never be considered inferior to spending time in the increasingly curated / heavily mitigated flight training sandboxes.
If and when the brakes get tapped on airline hiring (and it always happens eventually), would you prefer to be another 1450 hour 172/25 hour Seminole CFI, or to have a little deeper resume to discuss while competing for those spots?
When the brakes are applied? As a CFI he might have 1450 hrs but at the current rate he'll be lucky if he has 500 hrs TT on his current path. So that's hardly a 'deeper resume' when applying for other jobs in a year or 18 months. Add in another year and he'll be at 2200 hrs CFI and 800 - 1000 hrs in his 135/PDP job. A year later it will be 3000 TT vs 1100-150 hrs. Maybe by then the insurance will let him upgrade or maybe not.
He's not going to have 1200 hrs on his current path as quickly as he can get to 1200 hrs if he goes the CFI route. But it's really a race to 1500 hrs + 25 hrs MEL. That's the launching pad to start building 700-1000 hrs a year in a .78/80,000 lbs jet. Logging time as a 300 hr pilot in a Part 135 PDP jet sounds cool...until he projects out that path vs CFI/regional all the way out to 2,000/3000/4000 hrs as well as 500 TPIC or 1000 hrs TPIC. Which path gets him to the future gates quicker?
It's a question all the retired airline guys at our company ask the newbies (on the future 121 track) once they get to 1500 hrs - "what are you doing here?" They're logging 250-300 hrs of light corporate jet vs 700+ hrs of a 70-90 regional jet under Part 121. The retired airline guys, especially the guys hired young who had great careers, say "I don't get it." The newbies have their reasons but none of them line up with "getting to the majors/final destination airline as quickly as possible."
Last edited by Sliceback; 01-24-2024 at 11:07 AM. Reason: when the brakes....added
01-24-2024, 11:03 AM
#14
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
There are definitly positives to increasing your aeronautical experience flying a jet, regardless of the fact it is not logable. As mentioned earlier, if you do not want to teach than you need to find away to build logable flight time. Teaching flying has many atributes that bold well for improving your overall skill set, different than what you are currently doing, but still worthy and meanful, but only if you are dedicated to doing it right. The best fit would be to do both, if that is possible. You could bring some very useful skills, from a teaching prospective, into a environment that most (low time) CFI's don't have. As long as you build time at a reasonable clip, it could be a win-win for you and those you train.
01-24-2024, 02:37 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2020
Posts: 229
Originally Posted by Collins82
There is 3 aircraft, and 4 PIC's and 3 SIC's (PDP SIC's). We are all in the same boat from the same school. The other two are struggling a bit and are getting more hours because of it. They each have over 100 hours and still cant land or talk on radios. Ive done fine the whole time and have been told that by the company, but as a CA told me the other day, I might be a "victim of my own success". Meaning that because I was doing well, the other guys are given the flight time to try and improve. The company will evnetually send us to flight safety for the Type on either this aircraft or another and I think we would be moved to another before we got PIC in this one. I am currently studying for both this and for my CFI+II. Just want to be as prepared as I can. Really regretting just not getting my CFI immediately after training. I could have 300 hours logged by now. Either way oh well.
01-25-2024, 06:20 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Window seat
Posts: 5,213
Originally Posted by Rama
Pointless "flying" for an outfit where you are not really flying by the metrics that matter.
01-25-2024, 07:12 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,982
Originally Posted by QRH Bingo
I'm curious, to the OP, was the decision to work for this company an attempt to avoid instructing? Noting wrong with that, per se, because not everyone is cut out to teach. However, it is generally accepted to be the quickest path to a regional and then on to a major.
01-25-2024, 07:18 PM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Position: Volleyball Player
Posts: 3,982
Originally Posted by OscarRomeo
This sounds like a shady operation that is exploiting cheap labor by using unqualified pilots for seat fills (South Florida 135?). Do they at least use two qualified pilots in the Hawker you mentioned? You should probably run while your certificates and training record are still clean.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
