Corny357

How do airlines view time that is logged as PIC and dual received? I have my PPL and I'm here at UND and I was told by my instructor that airlines call BS on the PIC time logged with dual received time. He gave me the option and I told him I'd look into it a bit more before I decided....so here I am.

Thanks in advance

Larry in TN

The airlines understand that 14 CFR 61.51 allows the simultaneous logging of DUAL and PIC but they will almost always specify that they want to see how much time you have were you were ACTING as PIC, i.e. time when you signed for the airplane. However you choose to log it, make sure you have a way to quickly separate the time which is logged as both DUAL and PIC from that time when you were acting as PIC so that it won't take hours to fill out each job application.

rickair7777

I have never known a Regional to exclude dual-received PIC from time counted towards their hiring mins.

However, many will want to see a breakdown just so they have an idea of your actual PIC experience.

atpcliff

Hi!

Virtually every airline and aviation organization will want you to log PIC when you are responsible and you sign ALL the paperwork.

So, all your solo time is solo...they won't even accept that as PIC!

Now, if you want to have two separate logbooks, or track it separately, that is up to you.

I decided to match mine up with how the airlines do it, so it was simpler for me. I would also STRONGLY suggest get an electronic logbook.

Another consideration, that would have made my appications easier, is that a lot of foreign places want/allow you to break out your P1 (us) time. P1 is PIC, P2 is SIC, and P3 is???FE, not sure as don't have any P3 time P1 (us) is PIC under supervision, so that is where the dual stuff would come into play. Also, if you are typed/rated for the aircraft you fly, you can count 1/2 of time as SIC as P1(us). All of time in formal upgrade (to captain) training is P1(us).

There is no P1(us) in the US.

cliff
NBO

Phantom Flyer

[quote=atpcliff;675699]
Virtually every airline and aviation organization will want you to log PIC when you are responsible and you sign ALL the paperwork.
/quote]

I'm certainly not an expert nor do I have a "Sea Lawyer" shingle hanging outside my office but I think atpcliff hit the nail on the head with the first statement.

I used to do a lot of interviewing at a major 121 carrier and most of my personal flight experience is Part 135 and 121. The only time we considered as legimate "PIC" was when one signed the flight release as the Pilot-in-Command. Period. Even if, as First Officer and typed in the equipment, you flew the entire leg, you should log "SIC" as the Captain signed for the aircraft and was designated as the PIC on the flight release. That's all that mattered from an FAA perspective. We actually had an applicant who claimed to have had several hundred hours of "PIC" time in a large turbojet aircraft and yet he was not even typed in that equipment. He said that he was the "acting Captain" and so it was legal. Guess what....his paperwork hit file 13 very quickly. Another good point, use an electronic logbook if possible and yes, sync your logbook with your company records. Very good advice, especially in today's environment.

I'm not familiar with "P3" time but I did log my 1,800 hours of Flight Engineer time but only as that, F/E time. It's time aloft but not at a "control position".

Just my two cents devalued to $ .0002387 on today's market.

G'Day

wingnut215

I keep a separate digital logbook for this purpose. My regular logbook has all my endorsements and written records, and I have an Excel file which breaks down all my flying into separate categories I can create and edit. So I'd suggest make one of these, or even buy a program that does the same from a vendor. If nothing else, the digital version backs up your numbers in case your book is ever lost or stolen.

slipped

[quote=Phantom Flyer;675728]
What is file 13?

rickair7777

The round one.

Convairator

I think your flight instructor needs to get a life. When I was training for my instrument, I logged PIC even though it was dual. That was a long time ago! Never once in an interview did they have time to go back that far and check, let alone bring it up. That is a grey area, and remember, a CFI doesnt even need a medical to give you instruction if you are able to act as PIC. CFI's do not know much about airlines/interviews/etc, unless they have been there. In an interview, they dont have 6 hours available to compare every last detail in the earliest stages of your training against the regs. Tell your instructor to go take some 'neat' airplane pictures or something, then make some student pilots feel inferior because they are having trouble with class G airspace cloud clearances.

DBSociety

What he said. The airline gods/godesses (many of whom at one point were CFIs) know that half of your first 250hrs are most likely going to be logged that way particularily if you did a 141 or University program. Throw in advanced training, BFR's, IPCs, new AC and rental checkouts or grabbing an instructor buddy to work out some kinks or learn something new and that column grows. Its all legal, legit and hardly crosses an interviewers radar unless theres something unusual.