ATI 1 year looking back
06-25-2017, 10:16 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 223
ATI 1 year looking back
First year here at ATI looking back. I won't go into the interview process I think thats covered more than enough. I would just strongly suggest you be on guard at all times. Throughout the office it seems a lot of people are related so use caution. Most of the girls worth noticing there have dads there too. So again watch what you say.
Training, was actually fun and very effective. I think any airline could take pointers from ATI. Oddly most all are USAir/AA and they do things how they wish they could have been done at the majors. Unfortunately the politics start to hit about the same time. ATI management will come in and say how bad teamsters 1224 is and they are followed by the Alpa Union saying the same thing. Our union guy that came pretty much blew off negotiations and said you can't vote on it anyway because you’re on probation and that if you wanted big money your at the wrong airline. Blow all that off and move on. The 76 systems are pretty easy and nothing to stress over. Limitations and memory items are much better than the CRJ or ERJ. Sim was great, my instructor was ex AA he really puts you at ease and make its fun. He also reminded me and my partner not to get caught up in this mess and keep are goal on the “varsity” airlines. My type ride was kinda nerve racking at first. The left seater was a “Legacy” ATI captain. More on the Legacy/Cappi later. Introduction was basically “WTF would you come here? You have a DUI or something? Criminal record?” He seemed deflated a bit when neither of us had a good story. In the sim though he was great and went out of his way to help out. The evaluator, again ex AA, really set a great atmosphere for the event. Very strait forward with no traps.
IOE, at first was kind of a scheduling disaster with what they call the “Boeing Vacation”. My first IOE instructor was a nice guy but I'm not sure where he was pulling his questions or limitations from. I guess he lost his check airman status and then regained it after a sim event and hadn't truly caught up yet. My next IOE captain was fantastic and we had a great time. One of the funniest guys I’ve ever flown with.
On the line ATI has little sub cultures, Legacy, Capital, & Noob. The legacy guys will tell you about all the crazy stuff they did in Africa or South America or some far off war zone that they never got hazard pay for. The top of the seniority list seems to be legacy ATI. All are super fun and a tight niche group. Capital guys are more freight doggish. Again, great guys that have a wealth of knowledge. They've had a rough time with their management over the years and are skeptics of everything. You can spot the two types pretty easy. The ATI captain will sit over there and wonder if he can get his wife Mertle to maybe pick up a second job. The capital captain will sit over there rocking back and forth mumbling a few names. Then he’ll think “wonder if I have enough duct tape and garbage bags in the trunk?” “I should really get a bigger shovel”. The Noob sits over there and stares out the window dreaming of Delta or SWA or AA and someday making 10k paychecks. Id say most every recent hire that is able plans to move on. The key word being “able” and that brings us to pay and contract.
Im pretty confused here. Ive only spoken to 3 union people that are like "You d##n right they are going to pay us, we’re going kalitta or better” Others are “You’ll get what you get, it is what it is” or “dont worry you'll get a raise”. Lets say its not inspiring for the most part. Then there is the whole 1224 thing going on. Let me tell you from a noob on the ramp it looks like this. One group doesn't stand up, ever. They have the lowest pay in the industry. The other makes the SS look like girl scouts and they are making twice the dough. So……..You figure that one out. Its also pretty obvious that eventually for negotiating power it will have to become a one union ramp. Its a hard sale at ATI but as things drag on and as one poster on here states “things will naturally gravitate in that direction”. I see more and more senior captains admitting, albeit grudgingly, that this will have to happen. Pay for a first year (which is second year override) you'll make somewhere 45-60k. There was a lot of open time to pick up and now they have seem to have caught up. I think the upgrade time is lengthening as they have caught up in crew numbers as well.
Worth it? I don't know. The home basing is good but you get something similar with Kalitta or Atlas and get 50%+ more pay. The total compensation package here is less than a large commuter when you consider health insurance benefits etc etc. By doing this I really didn't lose any money but I didn't put myself in a position to make more either. I gained a type in a big plane but I don't know if thats going to help. United isn't exactly knocking on my door. I think the ticket now may be a commuter with a flow through. This place is fun but I didn't fork out 20yrs of student loans to make commuter pay for a career. Right now its hard to imagine the pay jumping much. The whole amazon thing does not impress me at all. I mean whats amazon truly known far ? Thats right -LOW WAGES-. Thats a fact Jack ! If you’re not capable of moving to a major this is a great place because you’ll get the Boeing time. Several here with career ending events have been given a chance. Im not talking about bending metal, talking about poor decisions or dependance on the ground. I just remember what my sim instructor said “get the type, get some time”
Training, was actually fun and very effective. I think any airline could take pointers from ATI. Oddly most all are USAir/AA and they do things how they wish they could have been done at the majors. Unfortunately the politics start to hit about the same time. ATI management will come in and say how bad teamsters 1224 is and they are followed by the Alpa Union saying the same thing. Our union guy that came pretty much blew off negotiations and said you can't vote on it anyway because you’re on probation and that if you wanted big money your at the wrong airline. Blow all that off and move on. The 76 systems are pretty easy and nothing to stress over. Limitations and memory items are much better than the CRJ or ERJ. Sim was great, my instructor was ex AA he really puts you at ease and make its fun. He also reminded me and my partner not to get caught up in this mess and keep are goal on the “varsity” airlines. My type ride was kinda nerve racking at first. The left seater was a “Legacy” ATI captain. More on the Legacy/Cappi later. Introduction was basically “WTF would you come here? You have a DUI or something? Criminal record?” He seemed deflated a bit when neither of us had a good story. In the sim though he was great and went out of his way to help out. The evaluator, again ex AA, really set a great atmosphere for the event. Very strait forward with no traps.
IOE, at first was kind of a scheduling disaster with what they call the “Boeing Vacation”. My first IOE instructor was a nice guy but I'm not sure where he was pulling his questions or limitations from. I guess he lost his check airman status and then regained it after a sim event and hadn't truly caught up yet. My next IOE captain was fantastic and we had a great time. One of the funniest guys I’ve ever flown with.
On the line ATI has little sub cultures, Legacy, Capital, & Noob. The legacy guys will tell you about all the crazy stuff they did in Africa or South America or some far off war zone that they never got hazard pay for. The top of the seniority list seems to be legacy ATI. All are super fun and a tight niche group. Capital guys are more freight doggish. Again, great guys that have a wealth of knowledge. They've had a rough time with their management over the years and are skeptics of everything. You can spot the two types pretty easy. The ATI captain will sit over there and wonder if he can get his wife Mertle to maybe pick up a second job. The capital captain will sit over there rocking back and forth mumbling a few names. Then he’ll think “wonder if I have enough duct tape and garbage bags in the trunk?” “I should really get a bigger shovel”. The Noob sits over there and stares out the window dreaming of Delta or SWA or AA and someday making 10k paychecks. Id say most every recent hire that is able plans to move on. The key word being “able” and that brings us to pay and contract.
Im pretty confused here. Ive only spoken to 3 union people that are like "You d##n right they are going to pay us, we’re going kalitta or better” Others are “You’ll get what you get, it is what it is” or “dont worry you'll get a raise”. Lets say its not inspiring for the most part. Then there is the whole 1224 thing going on. Let me tell you from a noob on the ramp it looks like this. One group doesn't stand up, ever. They have the lowest pay in the industry. The other makes the SS look like girl scouts and they are making twice the dough. So……..You figure that one out. Its also pretty obvious that eventually for negotiating power it will have to become a one union ramp. Its a hard sale at ATI but as things drag on and as one poster on here states “things will naturally gravitate in that direction”. I see more and more senior captains admitting, albeit grudgingly, that this will have to happen. Pay for a first year (which is second year override) you'll make somewhere 45-60k. There was a lot of open time to pick up and now they have seem to have caught up. I think the upgrade time is lengthening as they have caught up in crew numbers as well.
Worth it? I don't know. The home basing is good but you get something similar with Kalitta or Atlas and get 50%+ more pay. The total compensation package here is less than a large commuter when you consider health insurance benefits etc etc. By doing this I really didn't lose any money but I didn't put myself in a position to make more either. I gained a type in a big plane but I don't know if thats going to help. United isn't exactly knocking on my door. I think the ticket now may be a commuter with a flow through. This place is fun but I didn't fork out 20yrs of student loans to make commuter pay for a career. Right now its hard to imagine the pay jumping much. The whole amazon thing does not impress me at all. I mean whats amazon truly known far ? Thats right -LOW WAGES-. Thats a fact Jack ! If you’re not capable of moving to a major this is a great place because you’ll get the Boeing time. Several here with career ending events have been given a chance. Im not talking about bending metal, talking about poor decisions or dependance on the ground. I just remember what my sim instructor said “get the type, get some time”
06-25-2017, 12:32 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Position: Happy
Posts: 683
Hey man !
What a great post, thanks for sharing ! With all the JRM going on at ABX last year most first year FO's (yes first year) made around 7-8K a month without trying (that's 16K a month on second year pay). Company was still making money, that should tell you something. I wont talk about captain pay because those numbers make me spin.
There is literally no reason, and I mean zero, why you should get paid any less. It took you years to get to this point and you are operating a widebody Boeing. Like I said earlier I truly believe it is the new guys at ATI who will carry the company to a better contract as you realize the position you are in. The old people (well some) are in it for themselves. That's the beauty about ABX, the old people have their real frozen pensions and 7 figures in their 401K so wont take any more crap. The newbies at ABX know they can get hired anywhere so they wont accept any crap either. That's 100% unity. I can also tell you for a fact there is not one single FO under 45 at ABX who won't leave unless a good new contract / something positives with Amazon happens. Not one. The only FO who told me he is on a two year plan vs one is a guy who lives close to the airport and even when he bids reserve his QOL is ok. I get that. Even he told me though he is out if nothing happens. I know a few guys who have interviews the next few weeks at legacies. Imagine the pain Amazon will feel if all FO's walk out same time captains are retiring. Not pretty. And not necessary but the company is doing all it can to let everyone know they are not wanted nor appreciated. Wonder where that will end up.. so unless amazon buys us and atlas and turns it into their own good paying operation you are about to witness an epic mass exodus. Unless the company is smart and pays people a good and fair contract.
It's not 1992 anymore and worse case you can take your 121 time and be a street captain at a regional with a flow and just wait for your number to get called. And that is if UA/SWA does not call you first.
ATSG is starting to notice though that they are dealing with a new reality and a new generation. Did you notice how they totally pulled an ABX on ATI and gave ABX two more Amazon planes because the ATI guys where not going to play nice? Used to be the other way around
The BS ends when two groups realize they are being played against each other for no other reason than the short term gains of a very few, very rich.
The irony is ATSG could be so successful if they realized its the employees who make the company, but no, short term greed is more important than success long term.
Stick together, keep your apps out and leave your company a better place you found it.
303.
What a great post, thanks for sharing ! With all the JRM going on at ABX last year most first year FO's (yes first year) made around 7-8K a month without trying (that's 16K a month on second year pay). Company was still making money, that should tell you something. I wont talk about captain pay because those numbers make me spin.
There is literally no reason, and I mean zero, why you should get paid any less. It took you years to get to this point and you are operating a widebody Boeing. Like I said earlier I truly believe it is the new guys at ATI who will carry the company to a better contract as you realize the position you are in. The old people (well some) are in it for themselves. That's the beauty about ABX, the old people have their real frozen pensions and 7 figures in their 401K so wont take any more crap. The newbies at ABX know they can get hired anywhere so they wont accept any crap either. That's 100% unity. I can also tell you for a fact there is not one single FO under 45 at ABX who won't leave unless a good new contract / something positives with Amazon happens. Not one. The only FO who told me he is on a two year plan vs one is a guy who lives close to the airport and even when he bids reserve his QOL is ok. I get that. Even he told me though he is out if nothing happens. I know a few guys who have interviews the next few weeks at legacies. Imagine the pain Amazon will feel if all FO's walk out same time captains are retiring. Not pretty. And not necessary but the company is doing all it can to let everyone know they are not wanted nor appreciated. Wonder where that will end up.. so unless amazon buys us and atlas and turns it into their own good paying operation you are about to witness an epic mass exodus. Unless the company is smart and pays people a good and fair contract.
It's not 1992 anymore and worse case you can take your 121 time and be a street captain at a regional with a flow and just wait for your number to get called. And that is if UA/SWA does not call you first.
ATSG is starting to notice though that they are dealing with a new reality and a new generation. Did you notice how they totally pulled an ABX on ATI and gave ABX two more Amazon planes because the ATI guys where not going to play nice? Used to be the other way around
The BS ends when two groups realize they are being played against each other for no other reason than the short term gains of a very few, very rich.
The irony is ATSG could be so successful if they realized its the employees who make the company, but no, short term greed is more important than success long term.
Stick together, keep your apps out and leave your company a better place you found it.
303.
Last edited by 303flyboy; 06-25-2017 at 01:00 PM.
06-25-2017, 02:36 PM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 896
Bravo! Two new guys that get it! Listen up MEC, your membership apparently have grown a set and are speaking out.....do the right thing.
On another note: I cannot believe any officer of a company would be so naive or arrogant to make such a statement in front of crew members which advocates a revolving door policy for his crew force. Thats just plain dumnb.
SAY IT ISN'T SO!
On another note: I cannot believe any officer of a company would be so naive or arrogant to make such a statement in front of crew members which advocates a revolving door policy for his crew force. Thats just plain dumnb.
SAY IT ISN'T SO!
06-26-2017, 02:21 PM
#5
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jun 2017
Posts: 223
Originally Posted by 303flyboy
Hey man !
What a great post, thanks for sharing !
What a great post, thanks for sharing !
Lots of attaboys on this post from friends here at ATI
Thanks
One of the things I didn't address well enough according to some is the pay.
The pay here at ATI was so bad that you'd qualify for assistance on first year with a family. So they bumped every one up to second year pay to start. Strangely, I was told the union didn't ask this was something done by management.
So you start at second year pay and it blends in so your back on published pay scale by year 3. After your first year here with union dues I think you may actually go down a little bit. From asking 4 guys here take home seems to be 1600-1900 a pay check. Remember this is different from everyone because you have an option of insurance plans etc etc.
Another problem here at ATI is the pay sheet, its a HUGE problem. Lots of things here are based off per diem hours / RIG. The pay stub here is WORTHLESS and I'm not even sure if its legal in the State of Ohio. You as a pilot have absolutely NO WAY of rectifying your pay. You have to go through your schedule and keep up with your own per diem and them go argue with payroll who will just blame it on scheduling. Then you have to play that game. Most of us have caught 500-1000+ errors in pay here. Once caught it takes about a pay period or two for the to rectify it. Its just a mess and I personally don't think its legal. The lady in scheduling that was nice enough to educate us on some of this left and went to work for a commuter for more pay.
06-26-2017, 03:32 PM
#6
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 2,275
Originally Posted by midnightshuttle
...From asking 4 guys here take home seems to be 1600-1900 a pay check. Remember this is different from everyone because you have an option of insurance plans etc etc...
06-27-2017, 09:25 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 430
ATI 1 year looking back
The pay is a common problem.
I know for a fact payroll, the CP, and the DO are aware and desperately seeking change but someone above won't budge.
Even though we are covered under a union contract by a union that has lost all testicular fortitude (alpa in general) you may as an individual report them to the state. Eventually they will have to answer.
I highly advise this and it will take only about 10min of your time. (FLSA) You can also state that we are partially owned by Amazon and you were flying Amazon routes. It's meaningless but these reports are public record and it will throw their name on there.
You may do it in your home state since you are home based but most will differ you to the state of Ohio
VERY IMPORTANT
*****even if it is later fixed keep records and emails. You may still report after the fact to show trends and intent*****
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
I know for a fact payroll, the CP, and the DO are aware and desperately seeking change but someone above won't budge.
Even though we are covered under a union contract by a union that has lost all testicular fortitude (alpa in general) you may as an individual report them to the state. Eventually they will have to answer.
I highly advise this and it will take only about 10min of your time. (FLSA) You can also state that we are partially owned by Amazon and you were flying Amazon routes. It's meaningless but these reports are public record and it will throw their name on there.
You may do it in your home state since you are home based but most will differ you to the state of Ohio
VERY IMPORTANT
*****even if it is later fixed keep records and emails. You may still report after the fact to show trends and intent*****
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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