So now you claim you are doing it for the ABX, Southern and ATI
pilots.

You do realize ATI is ALPA and not under DW, right?

The only group of petulant children whining about DW is you and your "friends".

Time to get off your high horse and realize you were not elected to speak for any other pilot group. They get to speak for themselves. If you don't like 1224 and DW then vote him out of office; or leave and form your own union or local.

Maybe the rest of the groups recognize that DW is doing exactly what he was elected to do. Keep one group from undermining the rest of us. Maybe no other group wants to work more than 18 hours per day. Did you ever think of that? The rest of us are trying to negotiate decent contracts with real work rules and not just shiny pay rates!

You got the contract you wanted! Stop trying to undermine the rest of the groups still negotiating.

 

That's just it we haven't got the contract we wanted. The EXCO and the company came to an agreement over double crew duty hours and DW has blocked it saying it's not in the best interests for Atlas, we have to have what Atlas have / want.

The EXCO had to motion National to get involved over this and we managed to get a contract to vote on however with double crew duty hours section open and to be arbitrated in Washington this month. If it wasn't for National going over DW's head we'd still be in negotiations and no contract.

Given the fact that the EXCO came down 6 hours on duty but DW wants a further reduction of another 6 seems that any any fair minded arbitrator will go with the middle of the road, what our EXCO offered. This just cost us and 1224 even more money in fee's and expenses.

Frankly at the end of the day if DW gets his way if it comes down to over nighting in some $hith0le or getting to civilization I'll go over 18 to get to civilization.

 

I am aware of that.. and I am also aware they routinely work a lot more than that as well.

 

Great comeback Potsie!

 

[QUOTE=Screwed;2408452]So now you claim you are doing it for the ABX, Southern and ATI
pilots.

You do realize ATI is ALPA and not under DW, right?

You cannot see that ATI is also effected by what goes on here?

Time to get off your high horse and realize you were not elected to speak for any other pilot group. They get to speak for themselves. If you don't like 1224 and DW then vote him out of office; or leave and form your own union or local.

I am not speaking for anyone else nor would I presume that I have the right to. BTW, leaving is exactly what this thread is about. You did look at the title didn't you?

Maybe the rest of the groups recognize that DW is doing exactly what he was elected to do. Keep one group from undermining the rest of us. Maybe no other group wants to work more than 18 hours per day. Did you ever think of that? The rest of us are trying to negotiate decent contracts with real work rules and not just shiny pay rates!

Perhaps you should heed your own advice here and let us work what we want. Are you even aware why our pilot group would choose to work over 18 hours with a DOUBLE CREW and a POI who supports calling fatigue when necessary?

 

That is correct. Just as a line pilot does when they work over 64 in 16 or work at 1.5 on days off. Some CA work the line on days off. Some develop coursework in addition to their sim duties, saving the company considerable expense over hiring an outside vendor.

 

Don't get me wrong..... Im just saying they also sometime work doubles in a day..... and break guarantee simply in the sim... it happens.. and no Im not saying DP is getting rich working in the sim.. far from it. Just pointing out that Sim guys break guarantee as well at times.

 

I'm a former Kalitta Pilot and can tell you that its your attitude that is helping pave the fracturing of 1224. The Kalitta guys supported the ABX strike with the least protections, The ExCo Sued the company 4 times during section six negotiations (never done before) The Kalitta pilot group maintained huge restraint by not flying overtime by well over 95% of the group for over a year and a half. They got the best ACMI contract in the industry maintaining the best health care in the industry with very little participation cost, Best home basing in the industry, moved on days to 16 days without the company able to extend from 17days maximum, A 60% raise, business class travel and maintaining soft credits, best new hire pay in the industry, best 767 rates in the nation at the time of signing, along with same wide body pay for both fleets. It seems to me that the Kalitta guys are worthy of respect. I certainly hope Atlas gets a great contract and I wish them the best. But this lofty snarky attitude from a minority of guys on the other side of the tracks does nothing to help make 1224 stronger.

 

And how, exactly, does decertifying Teamsters make 1224 stronger?

By accepting contractual provisions that are measurably worse than what other 1224 carriers currently have, management has a lethal weapon with which to whipsaw a pilot group into a "race-to-the-bottom".

Kalitta accepts longer work days because they don't want to "overnight in the desert" (not realizing, apparently, that by scheduling fewer legs on those trips, they can return to civilization without going 24 hours).

Whats next: ABX decides that they don't need to negotiate into their next contract business class because they have airline status? Atlas decides that they don't need home basing because everyone lives in base? Southern decides they don't need hotels because they overnight at home everywhere?

During Kalitta's next contract negotiations, the company would have business class, hotels, and home basing as bargaining chips to erode sections of their next contract.

It's the classic race to the bottom that compels 1224 to coordinate contract negotiations that are for the good of the entire group. Trying to justify longer work days by arguing that you don't want to "sleep in the desert" is simply arguing for your company that you want to accept worse trips than any other ACMI carrier out there. No one else spends the "night in the desert" and we all still seem to do plenty of trips out there.

But now Kalitta has signed their contract and will have to live with it.

And now the other 1224 carriers will have to negotiate around longer duty days by giving up something in return.

That's how the race to the bottom begins.

So decertifying Teamsters because DW was trying to protect ALL 1224 carriers (including Kalitta) from this destructive practice seems like a dream come true for management.

Kudos to the vocal minority who are leading this charge. Connie must love you.

8

 

I understand what I posted sounds a bit harsh, but up until word started to filter out about how our contract was handed I felt differently, so obviously my opinion has changed. I wish everyone at all the 1224 carriers nothing but complete success in obtaining the contract they want.

What I don’t understand is how anyone at K4 would be opposed to leaving 1224 given the way we were treated. I know guys have a bad taste in their mouth from ALPA, I get it, because I have a bad taste in my mouth from Teamsters. For whatever it’s worth, I am comfortable making the change given my past experience with ALPA, but I do understand the concept that change can be intimidating. As far as this being a 400 movement, I can’t answer that because I am not in the loop as to how this process was started. What I can say is this is not the 400 against the 76-guys, we are one group with the same pay rate.

I would encourage everyone that is apprehensive about the process to look at what ALPA offers, I believe you will find it is a Professional Organization with much more to offer a Professional Airline Pilot. I was in a company smaller than K4 and without a doubt with had a strong Council, and a solid contract.