Other than the occasional ABX pilot, our suggestion has been met with distain. As was written earlier we will just take our ball and go home.

Yes we are all busy counting our money and watching our business grow. Why is that? Because in spite of DW's meddling our men got it done. We have a contract that pays us well and allows the company to grow. How are things working out over there for you?

Too bad your cannot see the wisdom in that. Unlike you, I appreciate the sacrifices Atlas and ABX pilots are making to raise the bar. I will however never agree with you on duty day. It is good for me, good for my company, and I have the FAA's backing to call fatigue when things go wrong.

I appreciate what you’re saying and understand ALPA is not a panacea, no union is. It would be nice if professional aviators did not need union representation, but unfortunately this is not reality. My personal experience with ALPA is good and bad. The good part was when I was with a national carrier, the bad part was when I was at a regional, and the difference between these two could not have been more apparent.

I believe I know both sides of the equation, I know what ALPA is, and without a doubt all of us at K4 have been a recipient of DW and the Teamsters. We mean nothing to the Teamsters which was apparent when they tried to use us as a pawn to further their agenda. I have no doubt were we to stay and not move forward, the repunctuations to our pilot group will be anything but favorable.

With regard to forming an Independent union, it really isn’t possible given the size of our pilot group.

MAX Jet your post is spot on. But I wouldn’t spend too much time trying to reason with an individual that sees lift through rose colored glasses. It’s like arguing with an ATM, it may feel good at the time but it goes nowhere.

Really? Do you know how many pilots (and how low their pay rate was) UPS had when they left the IBT to form the IPA?

Whale Driver,
I do not know the exact numbers, I will try to find out. BUT I do know for a fact that in the beginning they spent MANY YEARS paying dues of 5% just to cover flight loss pay!

I am not busy counting the money made over twice what I did the whole of last year so far, I now have a maxed 401k, zero CC debit, new car paid for, home reno's almost complete and not worrying about bills and a growing bank account, I don't have to count it I just look at my banking app but thanks for your concern.

The difference between UPS and K4 is substantial as UPS already had infrastructure as a package delivery company. Given the fact they were already contracting out their aviation division, the potential for growth within the pilot group existed the moment they decided to run their own airline.

I understand the appeal of having an in-house union, but given our size I just don’t believe it is a viable option. In addition, ALPA brings a wealth of other services to the table that an in-house union could not provide.

Hard to see in the picture, but is that related to Iran shenanigans?

For the Atlas pilot group.
Continue to allow DW to negotiate and push his own agenda in his" so called best interest of 1224 ". Then you will continue to work under an old contract while observing the other carriers not affected by him pass you by. Flexibility breeds efficiency.

Good Luck