K4 should start their own in-house union. It's worked great for UPS.... They make bank and don't have to worry about the drama of other carrier's issues.

Okay...

Having one of those "can't stand the bull**** moments..." Some of you know who I am. For those that don't, I have been a loyal IBT member for about 30 years. Walked more than a few picket lines with some of the old boys (Benning, Trichlor, etc..). And, went head to head with Connie on more than a few occasions. Currently, one of the old bastards that I used to hate to fly with.

But...

1224 has become a poisoned pool. Too worried about fighting with customers that have very little to do with K4. And, too heavily weighted in favor of the pilot groups (Atlas, you know who you are..) that make up the majority of the membership. To the point of holding our TA hostage in order to make sure that we didn't step on any Atlas toes.

We basically have two choices. Rally ourselves to gain a meaningful voice in 1224. Or, spin off our own local. Not necessarily leave the IBT. But, petition Bourne to let us chart our own course with our own local. We were the founding airline in Local 747. It just got hijacked by a poor Business Agent. And, we have the critical mass to have our own local again.

Just sayin...

I don't know the details but have you looked how ABx was used to whipsaw ATI and being under the same umbrella of representation helped to stop the strike work.

Atlas management tried to stop this and Teamsters won an arbitration so that we can support any carrier in case of a strike work.

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But, you are not under the same umbrella. ATI is ALPO (pun intended). It is good that you can support another carrier's picket line. But, say what you will about our management team, they did not even consider trying to force our pilots to cross the ABX picket line last year. So, what is 1224 really doing for us in the big picture? I believe that the IBT can be a good umbrella for a new local, away from 1224's influence.

Oh cool, its been a good while since someone came up with a thread that got everyone truly up in arms. Let me see if I have this right- the union that just led you guys to the ACMI industry leading contract (and turned a perpetually mediocre company into a place people aspire to work) is bad because every single thing didn't go exactly as you wanted? Or did I miss something? I have concerns about 1224 as well, but splintering is the worst thing we could do right now.

What is to stop 1224 from getting into bed with a company in your example? BTW that exact example happened at Mesa with the CCAir acquisition. JO wanted the CCAir pilots to sign a predatory contract or be dissolved and ALPA National stepped in and would not sign. ALPA told the CCAir pilots to ratify the agreement and then did not sign it so that the pilots would continue to be paid while ALPA stalled on the process. Got the CCAir pilots paid for a bit longer while the motion dragged on.

What 1224 (Atlas) did to us in contract negotiations is unacceptable to me and I cannot wait to see them go. I don't think most of our pilots understand how much work our negotiations team had to do in their fight against our own union just to get us this contract.

WHAAAAATTTTT? The union led us to a new contract? No, our negotiations team led us to a new contract that 1224 held up for the benifit of Atlas negotiations.

ALPA would be a mistake, should go in house if a decertification happens.

Why are you against majority rule?

You are too small a group to justify your own local. Look what happened to ABX. They had their own local (1224) when they were AE. With the DHL downsizing, they were forced to consolidate with the other smaller IBT airlines.

**** YEAH BROTHER!!


The same thing happened her at ATI, exactly the same thing.

We've seen where this goes. We've learned of the corruption here and the underhanded dealing and promises to union officials. Same ol'story different cover!!

ALPA is a broke, impotent, lam duck union!!!!