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Originally Posted by maxjet
(Post 2405445)
I was reading and considering your thoughts, until you posted this one. Sadly you feel so threatened by this exploratory gesture from a K4 pilot that you resort to name calling. Why are you so concerned by this from this little airline?
If you were to look at our situation from a management (DHL, Amazon, airline management, whatever) point of view, which would you rather have to face every few years during contract negotiations: Two or three different (and possibly at war with each other) unions, or one union where all the major players are also in the same local?? We are far stronger together than apart. The ABX strike last fall was a pretty good example of how we can work effectively when unified. The union (at ABX) went on strike and the 1224 pilots at the other carriers knew virtually at the same time as the ABX pilots what to do. I was glad to walk the line with the ABX 1224 folks because I knew that we have a common adversary and unity is the best way to confront them. 8 |
Originally Posted by xcdh
(Post 2405502)
I thought this was a belated April fool's joke until I received the letter in the mail. When I saw that DP is behind this idea, I had to wonder what his real motive is. Working in building 2 he may be trying to get in deep over at building 1. Think about the "gift" this would be to management by having us splintered more than ever. Decertifying is the main piece of the "divide and conquer" puzzle and would give him management cred like no other. There are rats on the ship, no doubt, but instead of jumping ship it just need to be steered back on course. For us K4 people remember: strength in numbers with a unified ramp. For non K4 people: please don't think the majority of us are on board this lunatic attempt at jumping off. Now, at least, Doug has a good nickname: "MOAB" Mother Of All Bad ideas. Look at ATI's weakened position now. Also, read "enough is enough" in the Spirit forum. No sane person would want a part of that action...
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Originally Posted by silver fleet
(Post 2405514)
....lest we forget not one pilot from that transaction went to UPS. That was an asset, slot, and route purchase, no personnel.
Lest we forget that the vast majority of Challenge pilots were either scabs or your typical 36th St. undesirable. Neither group suited to working for a reputable carrier. I'm glad UPS didn't take them. |
Originally Posted by Screwed
(Post 2405424)
Do you even know what quality of life means?
If you are spending 24 hrs on the aircraft then obviously you DON'T As far as being in the industry...I was at Evergreen before Connie even started bought his first classic. And I am still in the industry. And if you and your whiny little.cronies are going to be a drag on improving industry standards and practices then be prepared for blowback. The rest of us are trying to get better CBA's, K4 did not. Enjoy your shiny pay rates. Go back into the thread before your new CBA. Some of your fellow pilots were worried that Connie would not make enough money. Face it. Instead of getting a really great contract and advancing the goals of pattern bargaining, you wimped out and settled for much less than you should have. Now you want to work 24 hr days and blame DW, 1224 and Atlas Pilots because you have no balls and Connie does So DUDE , I hope you get your wish and get out of 1224. |
That said, if DW was fighting for shorter days, I doubt it was to screw you out of anything but fatiguingly long days. If it is pay that was the driving factor, there are many other contractual protections that could have been proposed that would have increased the bottom line without the ultra long days.
In regards to the above DW wanted our double crew day reduced so that ATLAS mgt wouldnt come come back and say "see k4 has xxxx we need that to be competitive"....seeking a concession. The facts are this was the final piece of the puzzle and in July when the company and the K4 NC agreed on 24 hours (this is 6 hours less than our 30 hour day)...it would have been done....except that at the last minute the K4 guys were told that 1224 would never agree because it exceeded the current "book" at Atlas, thus a deal was not struck that day. In Sept with the help of Capt Bourne, a deal was struck with the contract exactly as it stood that day, except with a single interest item arbitration to decide the double crew duty day. That arbitration will take place in 2 weeks in DC. The outcome will be known some 30 days after that. |
Originally Posted by Screwed
(Post 2405424)
Do you even know what quality of life means?
If you are spending 24 hrs on the aircraft then obviously you DON'T As far as being in the industry...I was at Evergreen before Connie even started bought his first classic. And I am still in the industry. And if you and your whiny little.cronies are going to be a drag on improving industry standards and practices then be prepared for blowback. The rest of us are trying to get better CBA's, K4 did not. Enjoy your shiny pay rates. Go back into the thread before your new CBA. Some of your fellow pilots were worried that Connie would not make enough money. Face it. Instead of getting a really great contract and advancing the goals of pattern bargaining, you wimped out and settled for much less than you should have. Now you want to work 24 hr days and blame DW, 1224 and Atlas Pilots because you have no balls and Connie does So DUDE , I hope you get your wish and get out of 1224. Oh, and I'm guessing 300-400K per year ain't too bad, either. Single digit seniority numbers come with a perk or two. The duty day thing was just the last straw. DW had an excuse to not allow agreement every time that the parties got close. There was always a new thing put on the table to block the deal. Often, blindsiding our own negotiating committee. I firmly believe it was his intention to force a strike and make us the sacrificial lamb in the DHL carrier group to make a point. Connie's finances? It's a privately held company, so nobody really knows but him. However, we are buying aircraft at a steady pace. And, although out of production, 400ERFs still command a good price. Money is coming from somewhere. Speaking of buying airplanes, you are either hovering close to retirement, or full of **** about being at Evergreen before Connie bought his first 747. It was 1991. |
Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER
(Post 2405578)
UPS purchased international routes and operating authorities from Challenge, not the airplanes, the certificate, or pilots. They purchased Emery and did not take their pilots, either. Their history does not not involve one purchase where they brought along pilots, so that is just one part of your argument involving Astar pilots that falls far, far short of being accurate.
For someone who has apparently been around as long as you have, you should know your history better than that. IPA was trying to get UPS to give you Asstar pilots preferential interviews till you guys showed your true ** with your protests. After that, you lost what goodwill the IPA was willing to give you. |
Originally Posted by Whale Driver
(Post 2405442)
Maybe K4 and all the other 1224 carriers should push to get Atlas out of 1224 and into its own local. The overwhelming majority of Atlas pilots would be in agreement, plus we were promised our own local when we switched to IBT.
BUT.....there would have to be an agreement that K4 pilots could not run 1224. The industry would be dragged down even further by a local being run by a pilot group with no spines and no balls. If Atlas goes then let ABX run the local. |
Originally Posted by Bockrain
(Post 2405693)
IPA was trying to get UPS to give you Asstar pilots preferential interviews till you guys showed your true ** with your protests. After that, you lost what goodwill the IPA was willing to give you.
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Originally Posted by CargoPirate
(Post 2405762)
Atlas having its own local would be fine by most of us.
BUT.....there would have to be an agreement that K4 pilots could not run 1224. The industry would be dragged down even further by a local being run by a pilot group with no spines and no balls. If Atlas goes then let ABX run the local. K4's current contract is far far better then Atlas' current POS This groups backbone is what got us where we are - how's yours? how much OT do you do? |
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