That is simply because you do not understand how the business works.

With upgrades on the 747 at around the 3 year mark, there's a big difference between a 20, 12, 3 year or a brand new 747 captain leaving for Ups/FedEx. I really wish that you would include that in your comment.

A few things here;
1) K4 is too small to start their own in-house union/association. We do not have the financial depth nor the leverage to defend ourselves.

2) The letter that was signed by all the then leaders of the 1224 airlines that restricts each airline from signing a contract that could (be misunderstood to) undermine the advancement of any other airline within 1224, needs to be rescinded or amended. DW Shanghied All the leaders of the 1224 airlines to sign this letter so he would have control over what happens within 1224 negotiations.

3. As far as salary goes, I don’t have to have what purple or brown has for me to FEEL good about myself. By working 16 days a month, no days off flying, As a 12+ year captain,I am accurately on my way to 300k this year. I hear so many very unhappy brown guys due to working conditions.
4. As far as at the duty time arbitration goes, that will be dealt with later this month in Washington. K4 pilots are not trying for 30 hour duty days. All we want is 24 hours for certain trips so we don’t have to layover in garden spots such as Afghanistan and Delhi et.al.
5. As for ALPA, I am not convinced that being a small airline in the big ocean of legacy airlines will support us the way we will need. I’ve been at Willow Run for 32 years. I have heard these discussions several times now. ALPA has rejected the Kalitta group at least 2 times that I know of. If we vote to go with ALPA, I FEEEEL that we will be treated as the red headed step child. ( no offense to the redheads here).
6. When ATA elected to leave the corrupt IBT-747 local, that was the right thing to do. They were not the only airline that wanted to leave 747. K4 eventually left 747 as well but elected to stay with the IBT.
7. I don’t think at the new contract rates,K4 has any captains leaving for anywhere.
8. After a hot and tiring Friday, These are a few thoughts that I thought I would share. Let the fodder fly……..

You say your working conditions are better than brown's? That's laughable. If K4's working conditions and pay are so great, how come K4 Captains leave for brown and no brown pilots ever leave for K4?

You are stuck in the Willow Run Vortex.

I never said nor ever implied that the working conditions were better at K4 than brown.
And about the vortex........ what's your point?

Right On! And this jerk Bockrain with the chip on his shoulder who joined APC in July sounds just like the jerk Screwed with the chip on his shoulder who hasn't been on this board since then.

I am sorry , you are not UPS. In house unions work when you have a large pilot base. With a small pilot group like yours the company will outspent you in a month.
Of course, you can always pay 8% in your in-house dues.

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We (ATI) decertified IBT and went ALPA, god its been great. Best thing ever. Kinda feels like prison rape but without the mess afterwards.





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Well, my crow kay playing friend, I do agree with most of your post. And, just for the record, got ya beat on YIP time. '77 baby! Seems like last week...

However, back to the subject at hand...

1. We are not sustainable as an in house. Not enough mass and no outside support if the company decided to just run us over. Alicia even made the same comment over donuts yesterday.

2. We are unable to get past DW in the current situation at 1224. And, being a minority voter, we will probably never be able to out vote an e-board election against the Atlas group. Don't see a real anti-Atlas coalition coming together before the end of the year.

3. ALPA sucks.

4. Being an almost career long Teamster, there has to be a way to make this work within the IBT. Be it petition the Airline Division, Hoffa, the Joint Council, whatever... The bright spot in the card drive is that it shows the IBT that we are definitely upset with the status quo.

5. Where is our EXCO on this? Are they willing to man up and head to DC? Ask to be spun off as our own local? Pressure the national to persuade DW and cronies that there is room in 1224 for an airline that doesn't have to be in lockstep with the other carriers and shouldn't be bound by the stupid MOU?

6. Finally, an editorial on the poster who commented about whether we would, or would not, honor a picket line if ABX pulls the trigger in peak season. We played this game last year, while we at K4 were equally ****ed at 1224. And, we did not cross any line. (BTW, our upper level management understood and supported the pilots. How's that for ya?). So, 1224 members, or not, we will always honor the struggle of our brothers and sisters at fellow carriers, regardless of their representation.

Just sayin'...

"The mind reels...

(...at the idea of agreeing to anything more than an 18 hour duty day.)

I shouldn't even have to clarify, but apparently so. Why should a human be expected to last longer than the fuel in the tanks?"

This one ^ absolutely wins the internet. Amen friend.