Originally Posted by Globemaster2827 (Post 2404353)

Look at the numbers...

1. A Captain at Kalitta gets $10,000 a year in retirement and their Captains have to donate 10% to see that. A UPS FO on year two gets 12% directly contributed (unlimited) AND $4,000 a year towards a pension. In retirement that Pension would have to be $40,000 producing at 10% in a 401K (probably not gonna do 10%)... That's probably a $60,000 (actually probably more...) difference just in retirement.

2. 64 hour guarantee vs 75 hours with an extra pay period. So 768 hours guaranteed vs 975. In guaranteed money that means $192,000 in guarantee vs $166,725 for UPS. So plus $25,000 for Kalitta. I won't get in to breaking guarantee because I don't know enough about the rules but I do know that UPS pilots regularly break it. Kalitta gets no rig so I'm sure that there are slow months where they don't. The months later in the year I'm sure Kalitta breaks by a larger number though.

3. Days on? UPS is less. So let's say they work a day a period (which probably is still less days a month on than Kalitta pilots owe) on extra time on average... 13 days times 6 hours of rig times 1.5 for over time pay... $20,000... Then add an extra 12% unlimited retirement to the 401K... $2,400....

4. Soft work rules? UPS gets paid if their schedules are touched at all. If you're moved to the Observer's seat for OE that's 2 hours of pay a day. Let's say that's worth 20 (I bet that ends up being more years like this) hours a year.... $4,000 just on that one work rule. More than 4 hours late? Extension pay... etc...

5. No rig at Kalitta and unpaid 24 in 7s.....

The $250 an hour at Kalitta is just a rate. It's very difficult to see the rate due to the difference in work rules. All of this and Kalitta is still ahead of anyone else in ACMI. It just makes more sense to be in the right seat at UPS and I don't care if you're 55.... If you're younger than 50 you'll see Captain before you retire where you'll be making $150,000 (at least...) more a year than Kalitta Captain all while working less days. Therefore, I'll vote no on anything that doesn't at least compete with what's out there and Kalitta's contract simply isn't competitive with anything. In the meantime I'll fight like Hades to get to an Industry Standard Airline... In conclusion...

KNOW WHAT YOU'RE WORTH!!!

Originally Posted by goldfinger (Post 2404020)

... Still have doubts? This same group, and one person in particular, Dan Wells, have blocked an hours of service portion of our contract which is headed for arbitration. An agreement which was wholly satisfactory to OUR pilot group and OUR management. .

Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER (Post 2404356)

Absolutely the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

I spent 14 years as an ALPA pilot at DHL Airways (aka) Astar. While being represented by ALPA, we lost a scope suit, a bid for 767's, AND all of us lost our friggin jobs !!!

While I contend that a union is only as strong as it's pilot group, if the national organization has other, more important (read lucrative) members, your airline will end up at the bottom of the stack.

Now, you won't be "competing" with DW and Atlas, you'll be "competing" with Delta Captain, Tim Canoll, and Delta, United, and FedEx for money and attention.

With 1224 you have all of the major ACMI carriers working with - not against - each other. They coordinate strategies and communications. They have a unified front when facing DHL and Amazon. And they have most of the unionized truckers in the U.S. on their side.

That's some pretty stupid logic thinking that ALPA would be better for K4.

8

Originally Posted by Freelindy (Post 2404454)

I get it now, you are fighting for 30 hour duty days, because of course you are. Took some reading to figure this one out, and now I understand who you are:eek:

Originally Posted by DC8DRIVER (Post 2404356)

Absolutely the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

I spent 14 years as an ALPA pilot at DHL Airways (aka) Astar. While being represented by ALPA, we lost a scope suit, a bid for 767's, AND all of us lost our friggin jobs !!!

While I contend that a union is only as strong as it's pilot group, if the national organization has other, more important (read lucrative) members, your airline will end up at the bottom of the stack.

Now, you won't be "competing" with DW and Atlas, you'll be "competing" with Delta Captain, Tim Canoll, and Delta, United, and FedEx for money and attention.

With 1224 you have all of the major ACMI carriers working with - not against - each other. They coordinate strategies and communications. They have a unified front when facing DHL and Amazon. And they have most of the unionized truckers in the U.S. on their side.

That's some pretty stupid logic thinking that ALPA would be better for K4.

8

Originally Posted by Bockrain (Post 2404448)

Bottom line is Kalitta Captains leave to go to UPS. NO UPS pilot ever leaves to go to Kalitta. That's all you need to know.

Originally Posted by Bockrain (Post 2404447)

My comparison is spot on. National forced 1224 to take in the other small airlines because of the downsizing of ABX.

K4 is getting deeper and deeper in bed with DHL and soon with Amazon. Your ad-hoc 747 charters will soon be just a side business, as Connie's main focus will be serving DHL and AMZ.

What you should do is stay in 1224 and work on a 1224 standard contract while trying to woo ATI to the Teamsters. If unsuccessful with ATI, 1224 should do everything in it's power to drive ATI off the CVG ramp.

Originally Posted by Code Red (Post 2404495)

Connie dosent give a **** about DHL or Amazon and will walk away tomorrow if need be. AMC trips are the bread and butter of this company. They love him.

Originally Posted by Globemaster2827 (Post 2404504)

Which is why I wonder where Kalitta pilots will end up. I bet that in the end Atlas buys Kalitta and tries to muddy the water with their contract situation.

Originally Posted by Code Red (Post 2404509)

Atlas ain't buying **** for one because they are broke and have no cash flow.

Two: We are not for sale.