A-V-A-T-R

I was hired in Sep. 2006, as a S/O on the 727. Best job in the world. We were able to meet many people during our 1st few weeks. We were informed by the gentleman who was explaining standing bids, that we would be eligible for passover pay because of junior 727 FO's being hired.

He said that we would have to put 727 FO as a bid choice and that it had to be ahead of the 727 S/O bid choice.

I looked at the passover pay portion of the contract and was only able to locate one area that seemed to address this issue (24.E.5.a-d).

Anybody have any knowledge on this?

Did I mention best job in the world!!

MaydayMark

Like you, I was hired as a 727 s/o. I short time later they started hiring directly into the 727 f/o seat and assured us that we would be eligible for passover pay. I short time later I upgraded to DC-10 s/o.

At my year anniversary I expected to see the 727 f/o passover pay (I think it was higher than DC-10 s/o pay?). I didn't receive it ... when I called to find out why, I was told that I did not have 727 f/o on my last bid so I was not entitled to the passover pay. I asked where this was written so that I could verify this information for myself. I was told, "It's not written anywhere, that's just how we do it." ( I thought that was a bad answer and felt as though I had been cheated!)

If I were you I would write both my ACP and the payroll people with your understanding of how the systems works. If they write back that your understanding is correct, you can probably take that to the bank. I'd figure that they are not likely to put themselves on report after they emailed you what you wanted to hear (after all, you have it in writing now!).

I don't recall reading anything in the contract on the subject, seems like an oversight to me.

Hope this helps ...

Regards,

Mark

FDXLAG

Assumption, you do not have a traing slot for F/O now. Kind of tricky but you will get first year pay for the first year. After that if you have bid a seat and are awarded it; you will get passover if the company trains (and activates) someone junior to you before they train you.

That would mean a new hire would have to start F/O school before you but after the bid closes.

Bottomline don't count on too many months of passover. You will probably be scheduled for training fairly early and they will most likely fill up the summer classes with people on property as to opposed to new hires. If otherwise, it will be (poorly) explained in the bid letter.

KnightFlyer

Once you start getting passover pay for a seat, make sure you keep that seat in your standing bid for all subsequent bids for as long as you expect to get the passover pay. Even if you know you'll get a higher choice on the next bid, still keep the passover pay seat in your list. Real important for someone going to an LCA or Flex job for 18 months+.

Gunter

Not trying to poke Mark in the eye...but don't be Mayday on this one. Don't bid an FE position ahead of 727 FO. And always keep 727 FO on your standing bid. Have it ahead or behind any other aircraft, it doesn't matter for passover pay before or after the next bid. There are some finer points if you haven't upgraded before the bid in 2008 (the one after the upcoming bid). If you change your bid in 2008 waiting for MD 11 FO class scheduled per the training letter generated by the 2007 bid, you could lose passover. Odds are you will be an FO by then, but who knows with age 60 and the economy.

In any case you should talk with the person to go to on this. Contact Marynelle Taylor. She's in the global. She will tell you not to put FE on your bid. She will help you figure out your bid order to keep your passover.

Contrary to popular belief, the company doesn't want to cheat you on passover. They just don't make it easy to figure out whether or not it is coming. Marynelle knows all. If she makes a promise, it most likely has to be honored.

A-V-A-T-R

Thank you all for the answers. I do not have 727 FE as a bid choice. I have 727 FO as a bid choice behind my wide body bids.

I will contact Marynell (thanks Gunter).

DiamondZ

A-V,

Would you mind sending a PM or posting what you find out? There are quite a few of us newbies with the exact same question.

Thanks,
Z

Purple F/O

This one is worth calling everyone you can. The company, union and all your friends. Then, go to the contract and scour it to be sure what you've been told holds up to what you read. Then come back here and tell us what you find out. Good luck.

FDX28

I was in the exact same position as you. I never held B727 F/o but got the F/O -NB pay after 1st year. The only way you won't get it is if you had a possibility to bid F/o in basic indoc and you didn't take it, make sure that you do have 727F/o in your standing bid ahead of 727S/O.

This is from the e-mail that I got from the company (obviously with the personal info removed)
CREWPAY:

This information is for your files only. No retro pay required for this request:


Name: ******
Emp #: ******
Current Seat: 27SM
Passover Seat: 27FM

Pay From: *****(First Day
of Bidmonth
Until: Activation

PAYROLL:

This crewmember needs to be set up for passover pay on a monthly basis beginning the **** bidmonth.

CREWMEMBER:

You should receive your passover pay and new pay rate on your
**** 15th check. Be sure to look at your Pilot Recap Sheet in
Vips to check your pay rate on ***** 15th to make sure it changed. I don't have access to that screen.

If you have any questions regarding this matter, please contact me via phone or email.

Thank You.
Mary Nelle

FDX28

Also just to add to the information. If you go directly to a wide body seat you're protected (ie you don't have to repay the passover). This has already been done.
If you bid ANC MD11 and some nuggets get activated prior to you, it will trigger WB-F/O passover.
Another piece to that puzzle, if you bid ANC MD11 and get a training date, but then bid to another domicle in the MD11 before you get to training, you'll keep your original training date and get a lateral transfer date and your passover won't be affected.

Hope that didn't muddy the water too much.