Locke

You are just a pleasant individual aren’t you? I bet you spend your nights in a dark room sipping scotch staring at a revolver. Here’s some simple math to ponder instead.

12 yr captain: 262.12. (Appendex 5-A)
Check airman override: 15 (Ch 5-Q-1)
Easily exceedable average: 90.5

277.12x90.5=25079.36
25079.36x12=300952.32

That is no overtime. I got 132 hours last month with 2 days of overtime (or days that the pool boy was porking my wife as you so elequently put it). I averaged 93 hours a month last year as a 2year FO. What do you think a maxed out captain that tries is going to do?

Now go take your pills, and calm the F down. If you hate your job go do something else.

Stimpy the Kat

30 years of the SAME conversation...

It's not about how much you CAN make. It is about how much you DO make.

The example above is incorrect: An assumed 90.5 hrs. IS 26.5 hours of OT every month.

Guarantee is 64. The above is a fallacious argument.

Look, it's a good contract compared to previous, but it still is what it is.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

For comparison and sake of argument( Random Example ):

K4/Max. Capt. - $262 x 64 = $201k / Annual guarantee.

Spirit/ Max. Capt. - $238 x 72 = $206k / Annual guarantee.

Plus 11% Direct Contribution = $ 23k yearly + $206k = $229k / Annual guarantee.

So, this is what each of these individuals DO make. Add over rides, soft time, D/O flying, 401k contributions, etc. and people CAN make much more.

To each his own.

Point being, the K4 CBA does not provide for a retirement.

The Spirit CBA clearly does.

So, "show me where it says that in the Contract" is a valid argument.

Whatever.




STK

Lockheed

you would be wrong fury one
times have changed
100+ hrs in 16 days is commonplace
those that work ot push 150 or more

85-90 in 16 days is now just ho hum

unless I misunderstand you - the 26.5 is above guarantee - not necessarily OT

Stimpy the Kat

Believe me, I fully understand the landscape at K4. The Great Furry One has been watching carefully from afar.



MAJOR POINT Still Being :

The K4 CBA does not provide for a retirement.

The Spirit CBA clearly does.

So, "show me where it says that in the Contract" is a valid statement. ( Per NiteFr8Dog's argument. )


Respectfully Submitted,

StimPson J. kAt

Lockheed

look back..I quoted him
he asked ..where is 300k in the contract..that's what I responded to

shroomwell

Tick tock, our CBA becomes amendable soon. With better union representation that will work for and open the sections that WE want.

maxjet

Our length of negotiations had little to do with our Union and much to do with Connie. The RLA severely limits what a Union can do. A good example is Atlas. They are negotiating with a company that is top heavy in debt, and has lots of support from its members regarding no OT and work slowdowns. You would think it would get done quickly. The courts allowed the company to file an injunction against the Union.

Imagine the response from Connie when you ask for 16% contribution. One of the more gentle responses will be, show me how paying you 16% more, makes me more money? I don’t have an answer for that. If we don’t come up with one that makes sense then there will be no 16%.

The contract was settled because a perfect storm happened. Couldn’t hire pilots and Connie needed to expand or wither and die on the vine like National.

Here’s hoping for another perfect storm in a few years. For certain lots of things will change by the time a new contract is finalized.

On the good side, Connie and Pete may establish a better working relationship with the new union. World peace may become possible at a level not seen before, resulting in economic growth.

On the bad side, recession, cabatoge, 767 prices stay high, An Atlas type board takes over for our present management team.

Bottom line is, don’t set your hopes on another contract leap anywhere near what the last one was. Btw, keep in mind that all ships in the harbor have yet to rise. Other than the pilots, nobody else in the company received pay raises 2 years ago. That shoe is yet to drop.

shroomwell

Your points are valid. At this point I would not be expecting to make any monumental leaps with our next contract, certainly as compared to our last one. I do think it will be nice to have the representation that will allow us perhaps to negotiate 4-5 sections of our choosing and be done with it, rather than all 28 sections.

Lockheed

spot on.....

lionflyer

They are going to stall and drag the next one 6-7 years regardless of how many sections are opened. As long as there are resumes on file, they have no incentive to negotiate.