B727DRVR

Hey All,

I'm a former freight dog with no true dawg in this fight, other than a few friends who are at ATI, but I do read the Cargo threads all the time and post from time to time.

Because of the EPIC fail of the ATI QOL and More thread below, the ATI Signing Bonus thread, and pretty much every other ATI thread, which have been hijacked by some understandably disappointed fellow ATSG guys, I have started this one to help educate others. I totally get how you guys feel let down by the ATI guys accepting this contract, but no one on here has ever explained in any succinct detail as to WHY ATI and their contract is so bad to prospective applicants. I get it, plan B....: Since they voted in a "bad" contract that doesn't pattern bargain in your favor, then trash it and ATI at every turn so less pilots apply there and thus less competition. It makes sense, but how about some more data and less drama? WHY IS IT SO BAD (or GOOD, or Better ATI guys)? The criticism (or praise) should be backed up with facts

For example:

What is the length of the contract?
What is first year pay, Third year, Fifth, ect?
Hazardous duty pay?
IS there a signing bonus?
What does growth potential look like?
What's the upgrade situation?
Do they have KCM? ID90's? ID anything?
What about CASS? Do they have it?
What is the schedule look like and how is home basing defined? AK? HI?
What are the maximum days that you can be assigned?
Vacation?
How about training? AQP? Probably not, I'm guessing. ACMI carriers are notorious for pink-slip training departments and 36th Street MIA training facilities staffed by post-March 1989 Eastern Airlines hires. ABX had the pink-slip loving Aryan Brotherhood that failed so many that the FAA looked into why. ATI had a reputation as well. I have heard mixed reviews on Atlas, with the B747 side being more problematic than the B767 side.
What about 401k? I'm guessing that there's not much retirement otherwise.
Do they have an ASAP program?
Was there ANYTHING at all positive about this contract?

So if things really are that bad with no improvements (or that good with improvements), how about some data as to why? I'm not saying for you ABX, Atlas, K4, Southern, etc. guys not to chime in, but your critique would be more respected with more facts and less just "ATI and their new contract Blows".. And where are the ATI guys with some info for all the RJ folks considering applying there? If things are bad, do a fellow brother or sister pilot a favor and let them know. The same goes for the good. Let others know!

So how about some facts?

100LL

Not just the cargo guys but I get a kick out of the whiners at any flying job they have. If it’s so bad why stay, get out find something else. So then when the company finds itself way understaffed maybe then things will change or they’ll just shut down all together.

airbus300

There are a lot of answers to the above questions. One thing about the whole situation with everyone making it look like we took a pay cut instead of getting a huge raise is that I have been able to get 2 of my friends interviews.....

vroll1800

B727: It looks like ATI profile has been updated, which should answer some of your questions.

As for the rest (Signing Bonus/Retro, Vacations, etc) : If actual ATI posters were not forthright/forthcoming during the period between TA announcement and ratification, what makes you think they'll be forthright/forthcoming now ?

B727DRVR

OK,

That's cool. Maybe you could answer even a few of the above questions? Airbus, I mean.

Industry Strnd

Fact 401k less than all new contracts by about 10%
Fact pay rates less than all new contracts by about 10%
Fact mmg less than all new contracts by a lot and no meaningful rigs or min day.
Fact no ability to trip trade
Fact bids with paper
Fact just got caught fudging flight duty times to make pilots legal
Fact narrow body scope expires unless renegotiated - why would anyone negotiate scope that expires and doesnt even cover current airplanes?
Fact less days off than anyone in acmi or the industry.
Fact it's possible to have vacation days on normal days off.
Fact no real reassignment pay.
Fact Jr mann pay credit less than peer airlines.
Fact mec did not support single carrier filing to end wipsaw.

Opinion- mec doesn't know how much leverage they have and caves to any threat or promise from management or ALPA national.

Opinion - some of the new guys understand but the old guys don't realize even with a new contract they still work more for less money in pay and retirement with no ablity to munipulate their schedule for good qol. Abx pilots are retiring at age 60 millionaires and ATI pilots work till 65 and retire with 1/3 the money.

LRSRanger

This message is hidden because Industry Strnd is on your ignore list.

B727DRVR

OK Strnd,

Thanks... That's a real good start as to why you feel that the contract is so bad..

727CA

Vacations are not on your days off. Every year the company puts out a vacation bid, and it's awarded by seniority. The awards are out by the first part of the year.
If you know your vacation is scheduled for the first two weeks of June, then you bid to work the first two weeks of June. You'll get a month off.
Yes it's possible to have vacation days on normal days off, but that would be your own fault.

Jurassic Jet

Or, you are not senior enough to make them conflict and you fall victim to your crappy contract.