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JackStraw 03-31-2019 09:23 AM


Originally Posted by Groundpointfife (Post 2793496)
Do you think they care?

No I don’t. It’s not like they have a tremendous reputation in the industry to uphold. But if they bend one into a kindergarten the lawsuits might force them off the golf course.

5Ypilot 03-31-2019 09:40 AM

Everything is fine, we will definitely stop narrowly escaping terrain, buckling fuselages and climbing out with localizer antennas hanging off the main gear. The trajectory the airline is on is perfectly fine, no problems here, I would definitely put my family on an Atlas jet anytime.

Groundpointfife 03-31-2019 10:48 AM


Originally Posted by JackStraw (Post 2793519)
No I don’t. It’s not like they have a tremendous reputation in the industry to uphold. But if they bend one into a kindergarten the lawsuits might force them off the golf course.

That's my point. Or alternatively if a pax bird goes down. Seems like just a couple of people (or even 3) losing their lives isn't really that exciting to the public.


Originally Posted by 5Ypilot (Post 2793521)
Everything is fine, we will definitely stop narrowly escaping terrain, buckling fuselages and climbing out with localizer antennas hanging off the main gear. The trajectory the airline is on is perfectly fine, no problems here, I would definitely put my family on an Atlas jet anytime.

Or how about pushing one into the ground?

NoJoy 03-31-2019 04:57 PM

“I could see direct entry CA on the 737, but without seniority list integration they'll have a hard time moving pilots from the 767 and 747 over to the 737.”

Very true. We don’t know yet what fences will be put into place and how long.
So initially, new hires for the 737 and maybe 777 fo’s who are looking for a quicker upgrade.
Time will tell how all this will work out.
Stay tuned....

Groundpointfife 04-01-2019 05:16 AM


Originally Posted by NoJoy (Post 2793681)
“I could see direct entry CA on the 737, but without seniority list integration they'll have a hard time moving pilots from the 767 and 747 over to the 737.”

Very true. We don’t know yet what fences will be put into place and how long.
So initially, new hires for the 737 and maybe 777 fo’s who are looking for a quicker upgrade.
Time will tell how all this will work out.
Stay tuned....

Well there is the option that you get a sh1t sandwich of a contract forced upon you which then allows for a seniority list integration...so I wouldn't write off the idea that 747 or 767 drivers can come over.

There's also the fences as you say, but my bet is it'll be a timeline or addition of aircraft clause. So they might say after the first 5 737-800s are on property fences come down.

aviatorhi 04-02-2019 01:18 PM


Originally Posted by JonnyKnoxville (Post 2793365)
Why don't you do us all a favor and grace us with your expert opinion? :rolleyes:

My expert opinion is you're so busy telling me how bad I have it while all I can do is shake my head and how much better you think you have it.

Here's an idea... You worry about your QoL and those of us who are not "worthy" of joining those doing the night sorts or hub turns in narrow bodies worry about our QoL. Seems to work for us.

Groundpointfife 04-02-2019 03:23 PM


Originally Posted by aviatorhi (Post 2794768)
My expert opinion is you're so busy telling me how bad I have it while all I can do is shake my head and how much better you think you have it.

Here's an idea... You worry about your QoL and those of us who are not "worthy" of joining those doing the night sorts or hub turns in narrow bodies worry about our QoL. Seems to work for us.

Umm I think I missed the point where he said narrow body pilots aren’t worthy. In fact if my interpretation is correct, he is advocating for you to have a better QOL, pay and work rules.

What I am hearing from you though is that mediocre is good enough.

Unfortunately your peers and those flying for other airlines that will have to negotiate based on what the bottom dollar is care how bad you have it. When management comes to the table during negotiations to ask why pilot group X is so much cheaper, it puts everyone else in a bad situation.

DC8DRIVER 04-02-2019 03:41 PM


Originally Posted by groundpointfife (Post 2794836)
umm i think i missed the point where he said narrow body pilots aren’t worthy. In fact if my interpretation is correct, he is advocating for you to have a better qol, pay and work rules.

What i am hearing from you though is that mediocre is good enough.

Unfortunately your peers and those flying for other airlines that will have to negotiate based on what the bottom dollar is care how bad you have it. When management comes to the table during negotiations to ask why pilot group x is so much cheaper, it puts everyone else in a bad situation.

^^^^^ this! ^^^^^^

aviatorhi 04-02-2019 04:02 PM


Originally Posted by Groundpointfife (Post 2794836)
Umm I think I missed the point where he said narrow body pilots aren’t worthy.

I think you've entirely missed the point that some of us enjoy the tradeoffs of ACMI flying to the point that we don't want to be burdened with the NB hub-hub turns or sitting thru a sort and are willing to horsetrade to keep the lives we have.

I can't think of many people where I am now who would willingly make the trade for "big 3" pay if it meant losing the type of schedules we get. Insinuating that we're all underpaid unless we're following "big 3" or FedEx type rules is ludicrous.

Groundpointfife 04-02-2019 04:36 PM


Originally Posted by aviatorhi (Post 2794855)
I think you've entirely missed the point that some of us enjoy the tradeoffs of ACMI flying to the point that we don't want to be burdened with the NB hub-hub turns or sitting thru a sort and are willing to horsetrade to keep the lives we have.

I can't think of many people where I am now who would willingly make the trade for "big 3" pay if it meant losing the type of schedules we get. Insinuating that we're all underpaid unless we're following "big 3" or FedEx type rules is ludicrous.

I never said pay alone was the only issue. You obviously have to look at work rules and the total package. I personally think you are selling yourself short though. Your position seems to be current book is ok/the best deal you can expect.

Look at it this way, even the LCCs make more and have better work rules. What makes you think that your negotiating committee can’t get you the best of both worlds improving on both your compensation while also getting you better work rules that would affect your schedule positively?

Heck these days even the regionals have some better work rules.


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