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Old 06-19-2019, 09:07 AM   #21  
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What it requires is a change to how airline unions operate. A page could be taken from the steel workers union. It doesnít matter which construction company gets the bid award to build a new bridge or building. They must hire union steel workers. The companies donít dictate wages, the union does.

What we need is a single seniority list that is based upon your total years flying union 121, not years at company ABC. Your seniority and pay are totally portable. If company A is treating their pilots poorly, you go to Company B with your seniority and standard union benefits intact.
The companies can go bid for contracts to their hearts content, but like the steel industry, they pay union wages. There is no whipsaw since itís one big pilot group.

The only way to implement it, since nobody currently working is going to let an Atlas guy come into K4 or OMNI and bid ahead of them is to build it with a fence. Anybody hired after a certain date goes onto the single list. Once the percentage is high enough of one listers working, the union gives every company the new base contract, benefits package and retirement package.

With the rapid turnover and hiring, this is actually a good time to work on this. 1224 should pick a date, about 4-5 years from now, and ensure no new CBAís are signed with a duration beyond that date. It will put every 1224 into section six simultaneously.

Quietly be building the single list starting today for all new hires. Draft the 1224 CBA and just wait.

NFL and other sporting teams are unionized with an industry wide common CBA for everything except pay which fir them is performance related above a basic pay.

This takes the whipsaw off the table.

Just a random thought....
Absolutely this ^
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Old 06-19-2019, 11:46 AM   #22  
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I don't think the RLA will allow that. Steelworkers unions fall under the NLRB which is a bit different, and it's more than coincidence it's that way.
There is nothing in the RLA restricting a CBA to only cover the members at only one company. In fact, there are several cases of one pilot list, and one CBA covering two companies.

In fact, one is very similar to the 1224 and ATI, ABX, Omni case all owned by ATSG.

AMR (prior to AAG) owned; American, American Eagle & Executive Airlines. American Eagle and Executive shared a single pilot list and single CBA but where in fact two separate companies.... just like ATSG owns three subsidiaries.

Principle is sound.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:50 PM   #23  
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Blame DW all you want but if Pilot Groups are threatening Union Leadership with violence to vote for the Retirement that they voted for then you can't blame 1224 Leadership. If the Pilot Groups that work for these ACMI Carriers all want to vote for a 5% 401k match on a 10% Personal contribution that's limited to $10,000, no daily trip rig, less than industry standard pay rates, 64 hour guarantees, and 26 hour work days then it sets the bar low for all the other carriers. If Atlas/Southern end up in front of an Arbitrator in the next 12 months there's nothing leadership can do.

The system was supposed to be that there'd be agreements that there was a floor that nobody would accept less than. You can do that without all being in the same Union if Pilot Groups would hold out for Industry Standard Contracts and Atlas/Southern wasn't getting Amalgamated.
How much would the pilots at Kalitta be making today if we didn't get the new contract that DW was trying to keep us from voting on?(AND DELAYED 6 MONTHS) ? Compared to what we make today, the math does't support holding out for a better retirement in the short term. We will be negotiating shortly on our next contract with an excellent pilot group/management relationship.
1224 screwed the pooch, they cost many pilots over 100,000k delaying that contract, they ****ed off management that wanted to grow the airline and knew they couldn't without large pay raises. From some one standing over at K4 looking outward at 1224, it seemed very much so like our competitor was trying to hold us back with their pull in 1224 for their own gains. It's no wonder we went to ALPA as quickly and effectively as we did.
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Old 06-19-2019, 12:54 PM   #24  
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Originally Posted by Globemaster2827 View Post
Blame DW all you want but if Pilot Groups are threatening Union Leadership with violence to vote for the Retirement that they voted for then you can't blame 1224 Leadership. If the Pilot Groups that work for these ACMI Carriers all want to vote for a 5% 401k match on a 10% Personal contribution that's limited to $10,000, no daily trip rig, less than industry standard pay rates, 64 hour guarantees, and 26 hour work days then it sets the bar low for all the other carriers. If Atlas/Southern end up in front of an Arbitrator in the next 12 months there's nothing leadership can do.

The system was supposed to be that there'd be agreements that there was a floor that nobody would accept less than. You can do that without all being in the same Union if Pilot Groups would hold out for Industry Standard Contracts and Atlas/Southern wasn't getting Amalgamated.
As usual you have no f'ing clue what you are talking about
Maybe you should review some old posts where it was explained to you
Especially about 1224 delaying our contract and the e board nearly voting it down

Like nl3 said dw's bs cost me 100k
How's that for retirement
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:12 PM   #25  
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As usual you have no f'ing clue what you are talking about
Maybe you should review some old posts where it was explained to you
Especially about 1224 delaying our contract and the e board nearly voting it down

Like nl3 said dw's bs cost me 100k
How's that for retirement
Yeah, he probably cost you 100k in the short term but could've made you 100's of thousands more in the long term but some people are just too short sighted.
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Old 06-19-2019, 01:38 PM   #26  
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Yeah, he probably cost you 100k in the short term but could've made you 100's of thousands more in the long term but some people are just too short sighted.
hows that Dwight?


We got 100% pay raise, Bis class travel, way better hours of service amongst other big things

Our retirement was increased by 2x


do you think a neg committee can get every single item they want in 1 contract cycle?

btw - our horrible retirement was the idea of our great 1224 legal team - you know the ones
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:00 PM   #27  
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Yeah, he probably cost you 100k in the short term but could've made you 100's of thousands more in the long term but some people are just too short sighted.
via Imgflip Meme Generator
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:07 PM   #28  
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I guess we'll see about that.
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:28 PM   #29  
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As usual you have no f'ing clue what you are talking about
Maybe you should review some old posts where it was explained to you
Especially about 1224 delaying our contract and the e board nearly voting it down

Like nl3 said dw's bs cost me 100k
How's that for retirement
11-12% of what you make... Every year... For the rest of your career... Compounded with interest (How's the market performed since that was signed again?). It was probably a bigger deal than what you thought it was... I think everyone leaving for greener pastures was a better strategy but I'm glad yall are happy.
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Old 06-19-2019, 02:32 PM   #30  
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From the bottom of my heart I hope that's true. I don't think Connie is any better of a guy than JD or BF at Atlas. They don't care about who stays to work there in any way. I think you're going to be in for a big fight too.
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