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Old 10-30-2019, 04:14 PM   #1  
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Default What has Teamsters done for Atlas and ABX?

Serious question, what has Teamsters done for Atlas and ABX? ABX has nearly gone extinct after their illegal strike and Atlas is allegedly on the verge bankruptcy with morale at the lowest point ever. Atlas and ABX pilots have destroyed their relationship with Amazon. When will you all see that Teamsters has led you astray while ALPA carriers are getting all the cake?
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Old 10-30-2019, 04:40 PM   #2  
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Serious question, what has Teamsters done for Atlas and ABX? ABX has nearly gone extinct after their illegal strike and Atlas is allegedly on the verge bankruptcy with morale at the lowest point ever. Atlas and ABX pilots have destroyed their relationship with Amazon. When will you all see that Teamsters has led you astray while ALPA carriers are getting all the cake?
Serious question, when will you see that the union is the pilot group at each airline and not some magical superman you pay a portion of your pay to so he can fly in and save you?

The best CBAs are created by the most unified pilot groups who all pitch in and never give up the fight. If you think you just join an association and everything is fixed for you, you will be let down.

BTW, the most lucrative CBA in the entire industry is at UPS. Their pilot group is the IPA. They understand that they have to look themselves in the mirror to find the solution to their problems and they have succeeded at being unified and taking matters into their own hands.

They don't believe in imaginary superheroes.
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Old 10-30-2019, 04:42 PM   #3  
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Serious question, what has Teamsters done for Atlas and ABX? ABX has nearly gone extinct after their illegal strike and Atlas is allegedly on the verge bankruptcy with morale at the lowest point ever. Atlas and ABX pilots have destroyed their relationship with Amazon. When will you all see that Teamsters has led you astray while ALPA carriers are getting all the cake?


So...youíre thinking if ABX and Atlas go to ALPA all problems will be solved and all will be forgiven? [emoji848] You would be still dealing with the same pilot group.

Maybe it would fix somethings, but it wouldnít fix mgmts desire to move forward. Iím talking 2 engine DC8s, DIY EFBs, the IT department issues...what else? The culture needs to change from the top down.

Iím glad your happy over there. But your attitude on here is awful toward your other airline. Are you always like this? You talk to your spouse like this? How does he or she feel about the attitude? Lol


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Old 10-30-2019, 04:48 PM   #4  
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So...youíre thinking if ABX and Atlas go to ALPA all problems will be solved and all will be forgiven? [emoji848] You would be still dealing with the same pilot group.

Maybe it would fix somethings, but it wouldnít fix mgmts desire to move forward. Iím talking 2 engine DC8s, DIY EFBs, the IT department issues...what else? The culture needs to change from the top down.

Iím glad your happy over there. But your attitude on here is awful toward your other airline. Are you always like this? You talk to your spouse like this? How does he or she feel about the attitude? Lol


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Yes, absolutely zero love lost for ABX. That pilot group gets no respect and deserves none. Maybe learn your history about their treatment and ethics toward ATI and youíll understand. No way we want them in ALPA. That pilot group is toxic to the core. Atlas has a leadership problem but their pilot group is fine. The same cannot be said for ABX.
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Old 10-30-2019, 05:06 PM   #5  
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Get a chance, say hello to your scab flight management. Vestal and Woodford. Now do your history!
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Old 10-30-2019, 06:08 PM   #6  
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Serious question, what has Teamsters done for Atlas and ABX? ABX has nearly gone extinct after their illegal strike and Atlas is allegedly on the verge bankruptcy with morale at the lowest point ever. Atlas and ABX pilots have destroyed their relationship with Amazon. When will you all see that Teamsters has led you astray while ALPA carriers are getting all the cake?
What happens when its your turn to negotiate your new contract or Amazon decides to go in a different direction? Just a question from a veteran of multiple carriers, most of which I thought would never disappear.
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Old 10-30-2019, 06:51 PM   #7  
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Serious question, what has Teamsters done for Atlas and ABX? ABX has nearly gone extinct after their illegal strike and Atlas is allegedly on the verge bankruptcy with morale at the lowest point ever. Atlas and ABX pilots have destroyed their relationship with Amazon. When will you all see that Teamsters has led you astray while ALPA carriers are getting all the cake?
I'm directly critical of our EXCO and our EXCO chairman at times. For example I routinely ask about safety improvements and what has or hasn't been done from both our management and union. I also consider myself a pro-union and generally supportive of our EXCO and our EXCO chairman. We support ourselves through targeted, accurate criticism. Pep-rallies don't win games, sadly.

In 2011, when most other airlines were taking concessionary contracts, Atlas had a contract (a contract with the IBT seal, btw) that was near the head of the industry. Teamsters has won a number of grievances for our pilots and successfully saved the job of an instructor who testified against the company in court. In general contract comparison, results don't seem to line up with an assertion that ALPA carriers are "taking all the cake". Compare ATI's contract to that of Omni, Allegiant, ABX or even Kalitta's (negotiated and TAed while under Teamsters if memory serves me.) Like Atals, ATI has been a laggard in compensation, unfortunately for your pilots.

So to answer your direct question, Teamsters has delivered some, measurable results. I just mentioned a few of them.

To answer your implicit statement, let me say this: I don't believe in giving people guff. It doesn't serve any great purpose aside from driving away potential friend for some moment of insignificant satisfaction. I get you may have some desire to get even with ABX pilots who may have been unfriendly to you. Instead, why don't you try empathizing?

Imagine being 50 years old after watching Airborne and all the other drama unfold around you. You finally have market forces and labor negotiations moving in your favor. How would you react when someone agrees to work for less than what you're making BEFORE negotiations? Would you be happy? By coming here and trying to stir up drama, aren't you doing the same thing that you dislike about the ABX pilots?

Let's help each other out, instead. Give us some ideas on how to deliver safety results to our crews? Do you guys have safety or training systems that we don't? What works and what sucks?
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Old 10-30-2019, 06:57 PM   #8  
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Yes, absolutely zero love lost for ABX. That pilot group gets no respect and deserves none. Maybe learn your history about their treatment and ethics toward ATI and youíll understand. No way we want them in ALPA. That pilot group is toxic to the core. Atlas has a leadership problem but their pilot group is fine. The same cannot be said for ABX.
There's a whole airline full of pilots you just declared unfit to work with you or be represented by your union. Now is this any less silly than people trying to buy you Amazon bag tags and the like?

You didn't get your ATP by being silly. What's got you so angry?
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Old 10-30-2019, 07:07 PM   #9  
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Serious question, when will you see that the union is the pilot group at each airline and not some magical superman you pay a portion of your pay to so he can fly in and save you?

The best CBAs are created by the most unified pilot groups who all pitch in and never give up the fight. If you think you just join an association and everything is fixed for you, you will be let down.

BTW, the most lucrative CBA in the entire industry is at UPS. Their pilot group is the IPA. They understand that they have to look themselves in the mirror to find the solution to their problems and they have succeeded at being unified and taking matters into their own hands.

They don't believe in imaginary superheroes.
You're getting sucked into a trap.
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Old 10-30-2019, 07:28 PM   #10  
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They've fought as hard as they can for an Industry Standard contract. Their pilots want more than to vote for a 5% contribution into a 401k and then to blame it on former leadership.... After begging to vote yes for that pitiful retirement.

It looks to me like all that hard work is paying off too. Atlas management can't blame the Union for the drug out contract negotiations every 3 months while they hemorrhage money and the stock becomes worthless. Eventually Management can break up the company or pay their pilots but as long as their pilots are solid it doesn't really matter who their Union is.

As long as other ACMI carriers continue to accept unpaid 24-7s and run around with "Prime Air" bag tags they'll continue to get compensated like minor league pilots.
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