Amazon Air Hit With 'No Confidence' Vote
12-09-2019, 09:14 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,809
Originally Posted by Av8r75
What I find hilarious and disingenuous about the article is that it fails to mention the other airline that flys for Amazon. The only airlines mentioned are the two who are having major issues between their pilots and management. A bit suspect to me. Did the reporter bother to interview any pilots from the other airline? No...and that is probably because this reporter was called by folks from one or both of the disgruntled parties.
I find it amazing these two groups of people continue to disparage Amazon over their problems as though Amazon is the cause of their woes.
The unmentioned airline is doing the job and moving most of the freight for Amazon. While their pilots do not make UPS and Fedex money, they are not too far behind.
While I agree that pay is seriously lacking at the two airlines mentioned, this is not Amazon's fault nor their fight. They just want their freight moved. For now, they are a customer and should be treated as such. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. No matter how horrible your management may be, they will definitely not see your side of the argument when you purposefully delay movement of airplanes and hurt the customer. You are not helping your case, just making it worse.
Blame the right people and stop using the customer as your whipping post. Unreal
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I find it amazing these two groups of people continue to disparage Amazon over their problems as though Amazon is the cause of their woes.
The unmentioned airline is doing the job and moving most of the freight for Amazon. While their pilots do not make UPS and Fedex money, they are not too far behind.
While I agree that pay is seriously lacking at the two airlines mentioned, this is not Amazon's fault nor their fight. They just want their freight moved. For now, they are a customer and should be treated as such. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. No matter how horrible your management may be, they will definitely not see your side of the argument when you purposefully delay movement of airplanes and hurt the customer. You are not helping your case, just making it worse.
Blame the right people and stop using the customer as your whipping post. Unreal
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
12-09-2019, 09:22 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 831
Originally Posted by nitefr8dog
You are blind if you do not think Amazon is involved....it is their fight by continuing to reward the carriers that have horrible contracts (a descent contract is a lot more than just an hourly rate) and punishing the carriers that are negotiating for an industry standard contract by removing aircraft and decreasing flying.
12-09-2019, 09:35 AM
#33
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 71
Jeff Bezos could create an industry leading and best - to - work for cargo airline in the world , if HE chose to. He , as the largest Amazon shareholder could pay top tier pay , even comparable to FedUp and Oops , he chooses not to , purely out of greed. Anything else is just spin. The buck stops with him. He might be remembered for his riches but to us pilots , he’s just another jerk in a suit getting rich off the backs of many.
12-09-2019, 09:56 AM
#34
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 50
Originally Posted by SouthernCr0ss
ATLAS 5/10yr CA = $109k/$126k
ABX 5/10yr CA = $166k/$175k
ATI 5/10yr CA. = $167k/$191k
FEDEx 5/10yr CA = $267k/$274k
UPS 5 /10yr CA = $295k/$302k
ABX 5/10yr CA = $166k/$175k
ATI 5/10yr CA. = $167k/$191k
FEDEx 5/10yr CA = $267k/$274k
UPS 5 /10yr CA = $295k/$302k
12-09-2019, 10:27 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Posts: 693
Originally Posted by Av8r75
What I find hilarious and disingenuous about the article is that it fails to mention the other airline that flys for Amazon. The only airlines mentioned are the two who are having major issues between their pilots and management. A bit suspect to me. Did the reporter bother to interview any pilots from the other airline? No...and that is probably because this reporter was called by folks from one or both of the disgruntled parties.
I find it amazing these two groups of people continue to disparage Amazon over their problems as though Amazon is the cause of their woes.
The unmentioned airline is doing the job and moving most of the freight for Amazon. While their pilots do not make UPS and Fedex money, they are not too far behind.
While I agree that pay is seriously lacking at the two airlines mentioned, this is not Amazon's fault nor their fight. They just want their freight moved. For now, they are a customer and should be treated as such. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. No matter how horrible your management may be, they will definitely not see your side of the argument when you purposefully delay movement of airplanes and hurt the customer. You are not helping your case, just making it worse.
Blame the right people and stop using the customer as your whipping post. Unreal!
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I find it amazing these two groups of people continue to disparage Amazon over their problems as though Amazon is the cause of their woes.
The unmentioned airline is doing the job and moving most of the freight for Amazon. While their pilots do not make UPS and Fedex money, they are not too far behind.
While I agree that pay is seriously lacking at the two airlines mentioned, this is not Amazon's fault nor their fight. They just want their freight moved. For now, they are a customer and should be treated as such. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. No matter how horrible your management may be, they will definitely not see your side of the argument when you purposefully delay movement of airplanes and hurt the customer. You are not helping your case, just making it worse.
Blame the right people and stop using the customer as your whipping post. Unreal!
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
"ATI moves another airplane!"
That's some riveting journalism right there. Let me grab my popcorn.
12-09-2019, 11:22 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 687
Originally Posted by ROBsINtheHOOD
he’s just another jerk in a suit getting rich off the backs of many.
12-09-2019, 12:47 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,809
Originally Posted by goinaround
Amazon doesn't give a crap about what the pilots' contract looks like....now or in the future. They want their stuff moved reliably for the price that they want to pay. That's it. They don't care what ATI pilots get paid....they don't care what ABX pilots get paid.
12-09-2019, 01:26 PM
#38
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 71
Originally Posted by CardboardCutout
You do understand that he is required, like legally required, to attempt to maximize profit, yes? Hate the game if you want.
12-09-2019, 08:49 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2011
Posts: 224
Originally Posted by SouthernCr0ss
ABX 5/10yr CA = $166k/$175k
ATI 5/10yr CA. = $167k/$191k
ATI 5/10yr CA. = $167k/$191k
3 years at ATI you might be at $200/hr. UPS $186/hr. ABX $110/hr.
No question UPS better but for someone coming from a regional or place like commutair (400+ pilots with 3 year CA's making 56 - $67/hr!) $200/hr in three years is going to feel pretty good.
12-09-2019, 09:16 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: B777/CA retired
Posts: 1,483
Originally Posted by ROBsINtheHOOD
Jeff Bezos could create an industry leading and best - to - work for cargo airline in the world , if HE chose to. He , as the largest Amazon shareholder could pay top tier pay , even comparable to FedUp and Oops , he chooses not to , purely out of greed. Anything else is just spin. The buck stops with him. He might be remembered for his riches but to us pilots , he’s just another jerk in a suit getting rich off the backs of many.
It’s funny how so many pilots rant and rave about politics. But when faced with market forces at work they put out posts like this. If it wasn’t for the rise of Amazon flying you wouldn’t see the numbers of freighters growing. And if you know the history of Amazon you would know that Bezos works on cutting costs to the bone and outsourcing everything. He’s not Fred Smith and he’s not UPS. He’s the ultimate consolidator. That means contracting out and that means competing to be the lowest cost to him to ship that item he has ready to move out of the warehouse.
It’s a crap game but it is the game you are playing in. I hate to see the whipsaw. But that’s not going to change because that’s the nature of the ACMI business. And that business you have is better than sitting around with empty planes and no one calling you to fly their freight. Been there, done that.
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