STV revisited
07-14-2007 | 09:24 AM
#41
APC co-founder
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: B777
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07-14-2007 | 09:25 AM
#42
APC co-founder
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: B777
07-14-2007 | 10:27 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,813
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Pinseeker,
I respect your right to vote how you see fit here. I don't know if you are junior or senior, but is that influencing how you vote? The junior guys are the ones getting screwed here (ALPA Standard), so if you are junior I don't understand how you could vote for this Piece of FOD.
In answer to your housing question---Yes I would expect the company to pay for 100% of a reasonable house in either Hong Kong or Paris if I were to bring my family. I never had to be concerned about a pay cut, sutiable housing, or my kids education when I served overseas in the military, and I should'nt have to worry about it at a world class company like ours. "Anything else is rubish."
Bottom Line (this one's for Albie):
YGBSM---NFW. That's a NO
I respect your right to vote how you see fit here. I don't know if you are junior or senior, but is that influencing how you vote? The junior guys are the ones getting screwed here (ALPA Standard), so if you are junior I don't understand how you could vote for this Piece of FOD.
In answer to your housing question---Yes I would expect the company to pay for 100% of a reasonable house in either Hong Kong or Paris if I were to bring my family. I never had to be concerned about a pay cut, sutiable housing, or my kids education when I served overseas in the military, and I should'nt have to worry about it at a world class company like ours. "Anything else is rubish."
Bottom Line (this one's for Albie):
YGBSM---NFW. That's a NO
So, using your arguement, the company should be paying us a $1600 housing allowance just like they would in the military. That's the difference, the company nor the union ever said they would provide housing as a benifit for work, the military did. By the way, even with the $5000+ housing allowance that an O-5 gets in HKG, a wide body F/O still will make about $40,000.00 a year more than the O-5. Base pay plus flight pay only comes to about $90,000. Once again, I think the company will give you the military package if you want it. I remember getting about 6 days off a month. Sounds like a reasonable trade.
07-14-2007 | 11:00 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,306
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From: 767 Cap
So, using your arguement, the company should be paying us a $1600 housing allowance just like they would in the military. That's the difference, the company nor the union ever said they would provide housing as a benifit for work, the military did. By the way, even with the $5000+ housing allowance that an O-5 gets in HKG, a wide body F/O still will make about $40,000.00 a year more than the O-5. Base pay plus flight pay only comes to about $90,000. Once again, I think the company will give you the military package if you want it. I remember getting about 6 days off a month. Sounds like a reasonable trade.
Interesting post. How about the difference between BAQ for Memphis area, and BAQ for HKG or CDG? That would be reasonable. After all, even Fred can't accuse Uncle Sugar of being overly generous.
07-14-2007 | 11:06 AM
#45
Part Time Employee
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,918
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From: Dispersing Green House Gasses on a Global Basis
First, I am a yes voter. If you don't want to hear what I have to say, skip the rest.
The STV(for those who can't get it right) only applies for a vacancy that isn't filled. It will be bid and filled just like SIBA except for the duration. In SIBA, you can be inversed and given what ever crap line they want to give you if you can't hold the good ones. For all of the doom and gloomers, imagine the min days off lines that could be created for SIBA.
I've also read about the Cathy package being so great. I'm sure the company would be glad to give it to you, the caviot being you get their contract as well. Are you asking that the company pays for 100% of your housing where ever you want to live. There is housing available for the same ammount you would pay in the states plus the $2700 and it is not in the slums. Not ocean front, but not the slums.
There are lots of bad scenarios which people can come up with, the question is, will they all happen. A year from now, we could be facing that killer comet.
The STV(for those who can't get it right) only applies for a vacancy that isn't filled. It will be bid and filled just like SIBA except for the duration. In SIBA, you can be inversed and given what ever crap line they want to give you if you can't hold the good ones. For all of the doom and gloomers, imagine the min days off lines that could be created for SIBA.
I've also read about the Cathy package being so great. I'm sure the company would be glad to give it to you, the caviot being you get their contract as well. Are you asking that the company pays for 100% of your housing where ever you want to live. There is housing available for the same ammount you would pay in the states plus the $2700 and it is not in the slums. Not ocean front, but not the slums.
There are lots of bad scenarios which people can come up with, the question is, will they all happen. A year from now, we could be facing that killer comet.
Another thing to consider is - it is not $2700 you will be getting unless you can justify all the money. The LOA states "Pilots shall be entitled to a rental allowance of up to $2,700 per month to offset the cost of rental housing in the FDA location. Money paid to a landlord for water/utilities, internet/cable, parking, maintenance, etc., may be included in the rental allowance."
Translated - you have to justify why you need all $2700, if you decide to live in the slums/share a place with your buds you just get a smaller allowance.
07-14-2007 | 11:25 AM
#46
Bourgeoisie
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 620
Likes: 0
From: 787 SO
First, I am a yes voter. If you don't want to hear what I have to say, skip the rest.
The STV(for those who can't get it right) only applies for a vacancy that isn't filled. It will be bid and filled just like SIBA except for the duration. In SIBA, you can be inversed and given what ever crap line they want to give you if you can't hold the good ones. For all of the doom and gloomers, imagine the min days off lines that could be created for SIBA.
I've also read about the Cathy package being so great. I'm sure the company would be glad to give it to you, the caviot being you get their contract as well. Are you asking that the company pays for 100% of your housing where ever you want to live. There is housing available for the same ammount you would pay in the states plus the $2700 and it is not in the slums. Not ocean front, but not the slums.
There are lots of bad scenarios which people can come up with, the question is, will they all happen. A year from now, we could be facing that killer comet.
The STV(for those who can't get it right) only applies for a vacancy that isn't filled. It will be bid and filled just like SIBA except for the duration. In SIBA, you can be inversed and given what ever crap line they want to give you if you can't hold the good ones. For all of the doom and gloomers, imagine the min days off lines that could be created for SIBA.
I've also read about the Cathy package being so great. I'm sure the company would be glad to give it to you, the caviot being you get their contract as well. Are you asking that the company pays for 100% of your housing where ever you want to live. There is housing available for the same ammount you would pay in the states plus the $2700 and it is not in the slums. Not ocean front, but not the slums.
There are lots of bad scenarios which people can come up with, the question is, will they all happen. A year from now, we could be facing that killer comet.
Sorry but it is a no vote just based on that.
Additionally, the STV, no matter how benign you, the Onion, or the company wants to believe sets a dangerous precedent at a company that already has too much control.
Last edited by MEMFO4Ever; 07-14-2007 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Onion=Union....same credibility
07-14-2007 | 12:02 PM
#47
...Whatever It Is!
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,680
Likes: 0
07-14-2007 | 12:17 PM
#48
Living the dream!
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 915
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From: MD-11 Capt
R1200T,
I am one of those hung up on the STV issue. I have no plans on ever bidding either of these domiciles. I also think this might be the best deal we are offered regarding these FDAs. However, I have kids at home and don't want the "3 month vacation." I don't know if STV will ever happen or if it will go senior or not. Do you? I have had my time away in the military and still get plenty of it in the reserves. I pick a schedule that minimizes my time away from home. While this type of life may not appeal to you or others, it is my choice.
I suggest everyone taking a deep breath, vote in YOUR best interest, and move on.
I am one of those hung up on the STV issue. I have no plans on ever bidding either of these domiciles. I also think this might be the best deal we are offered regarding these FDAs. However, I have kids at home and don't want the "3 month vacation." I don't know if STV will ever happen or if it will go senior or not. Do you? I have had my time away in the military and still get plenty of it in the reserves. I pick a schedule that minimizes my time away from home. While this type of life may not appeal to you or others, it is my choice.
I suggest everyone taking a deep breath, vote in YOUR best interest, and move on.
Nightfreight
I think I do know that STV will not go junior. I'd bet on it. I'll give you 5 to 1 odds for 5 years it is never forced on anyone. You pick the amount.
I have three small kids and like you I minimize my time away. After ten years I decided my family was more important than where I lived, so I'm here in Memphis working 4 or 5 days a month spending A LOT of time with my kids (3 and 5). I should have done it a decade ago best move yet. I'd like to bid the FDA in Paris but with the current compensation package I can't do it so I'm a NO.
Some guys are saying they are going to vote yes so they won't screw the guys that do bid it. Well, guess what the MEC Chair in Subic voted NO and I know he wouldn't screw himself and all the guys in Subic unless there was good reason, and I can assure it has nothing to do with the SVT.
Last edited by R1200RT; 07-14-2007 at 05:45 PM.
07-14-2007 | 12:20 PM
#49
Living the dream!
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 915
Likes: 0
From: MD-11 Capt
i have to say more and more guys i talk to are voting yes now...they say they are not bidding it anyway and don't want to screw the guys who go out of the allowance when the company puts the bid out under the CBA ... also the scope issue...they don't want to lose the int'l flying...it may pass anyway
07-14-2007 | 12:26 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 424
Likes: 0
R1200,
The bottomline is that neither of know how, or if, STV will be handled. We can both have our guesses, but in the end, they are just that. I simply don't want to give the company that flexibility. If it were impossible that an invol could happen, why is it in there in the first place? Never allow a loophole "that won't be exploited" to be placed in our CBA. If the company finds it cheaper to involuntary assign STV, then they will probably use this method. Afterall, it was in our legally binding agreement.
The bottomline is that neither of know how, or if, STV will be handled. We can both have our guesses, but in the end, they are just that. I simply don't want to give the company that flexibility. If it were impossible that an invol could happen, why is it in there in the first place? Never allow a loophole "that won't be exploited" to be placed in our CBA. If the company finds it cheaper to involuntary assign STV, then they will probably use this method. Afterall, it was in our legally binding agreement.
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