Need4Speed

OK, as a UPS Management Pilot, I'll tell you the real scoop. It's really not quite that bad, but there are some serious things to consider. First, you are the front line guy that is identified with every problem (schedules, equipment, etc..) caused by the top level admistrative management.... even though you usually have no input on issues at this level. Line pilots that are affected by these problems look for someone to take out their frustrations, and guess who that is going to be... the front line management pilots. Believe me, I share the same frustrations about the same issues; I just don't have a punching bag to take it out on. As far as the schedule goes, I can't complain too much. Despite the perception that mgmt Pilots work 6 days/week, I actually only work an average of 2-3 more days per month than a line pilot. The Check Airman work isn't nearly as hard as the Line Sim Instructor job, and I have more control of my days off. I certainly can't complain about the pay and benefits. The largest concern I have is that seniority is not considered in job placement. You sometimes have an input in the job you are given, but there is a lot of truth in what was said in a previous post.... you'll go where you are assigned.

The bottom line... even though it's probably not as bad as suggested in previous posts, it's not for everyone. Truth be told, I'd probably prefer the line pilot position (I didn't have a choice when offered the job). Hope this helps.

BoynamedSue

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Rocket Man

WRONG! I know a line Capt who denied a Priority 2 with no repercussions!

NoKoolAid

Need4Speed,

Finally someone on the inside for a change. I appreciate all your inputs and the additional comments about perception v. reality in mgmt.

Given the position I'm currently in, the likelihood that I will continue in the process at UPS is minimal. Regardless of the outcome, I think the future looks very bright at UPS -- would be much better with a more progressive management style, i.e. SWA.

It's also hard to argue with 98 years of growth and success.

NKA

A300 PILOT

I have been watching with interest the back and forth of the last few days.
I am also a management pilot and have to agree 100% with Need4Speed. It is a great job and we do share the same frustrations as you do. I for one, came from the line in the early years (1989). I find some things wrong with the company, but what company is 100% to your liking? I would not change the decision made and have no regrets. I also respect all the line people who help make the whole operation a success.

Pilot7576

UPS CPT


Level 3 js???????...you're a tool for sure....they are known universally as priority 3's by all line pilots...As far as bumping line pilots, I would be more likely to bump pri 3s and let the 7s ride than the other way around....Let the company buy them the ticket they deserve instead of stuffing them inside the cockpit....

UPS CPT, I'm not sure what thrill you get from this charade, but I know mgmt guys that are decent and some that are total buttheads...you fall in the latter category....

Along with your minimal flight experience and nonexistent leadership skills, you rank at the bottom of the barrel for even ups mgrs....

Pilot7576

UPSIPACAPT

I considered it once a long time ago. I was asked to put in a request to management from the chief pilot. At the time I was an engineer, out of the military and still in the Guard. I said I would put in a request. Before I could a couple of managers that are still here got hold of me, dragged me into a private room and said I was nuts if I came over to management and that I wanted to be a pilot then I was already in the right job with a line number. Boy, I thank them every day in my prayers and when I see them.

fr8rcaptain

I left the Air Force in 1990 because I was tired of moving around the world, and as rank promotions came, less flying was the norm. I took the line pilot job at UPS because it was the only job offer I got in 1990! As luck would have it, it was a good career move. I've lived in the main SDF domicile for over 15 years now. I fly when I want (middle MD11 Captain), or bid reserve (and usually don't get called out much) by choice.

My general impression of management pilots is a positive one. Their careers are generally one of two tracks: either showing up day to day and just doing your job, happy with what they're doing and not looking for large job promotions (guys you'd have a beer with on a layover), and those that choose to volunteer for the crappy tours at out stations, special projects, and blow their way up the management chain (watch out!).

You'll start as a newly type rated "Captain" on an aircraft you've never flown, probably working as an instructor in the training center, then magically you're a check airman giving type rides, then flight standards giving line checks. From there you'll become a "fleet supervisor," and then get into the world of non-flying management projects. From there.....

You will work at least five days a week, with "projects" to do on your days off. You'll also be expected to fly for currency. This usually is on your "days off." A former squadron mate took a management job here when furloughed from Delta. He left UPS the day Delta recalled him (maybe to his overall loss), and told me he enjoyed his job at UPS, but he worked his a** off, and had very little quality time at home. He'd get additional projects to do on his days off, do them quickly, and then he'd get two projects the next weekend! Line pilots are generally wary around a greenhorn paper Captain who has almost no actual UPS operational experience doing training or checking.

I think a majority of the management pilots hope the IPA pilots get a great contract. Their individual pay rates are hush hush and negotiated individually, but there is certainly pairity, so any significant payscale raise would benefit the management pilot too. Management pilots, like line guys, are bothered by the uncertainty of contract negotiations. The ones who were working during the teamsters strike of 97 don't want to repeat that fiasco. They worked their asses off for not quite two weeks trying to fly a very small number of daily flights.

If this is your cup of tea, I say go for it! It all reminded me of the military structure and politics I left in the first place.

We do have line pilots "promoted" to management every year, but they are usually the ones that like working in the training center, or the quick jump to "Captain" with the quick type rating. Most line pilots see the management job for what it is, just another 5 to 6 day a week office job that lets you fly once in a while, and you don't get to choose where you'll live.

Is it antagonistic? Not really, it's just that when I came here in 1990, UPS hated hiring pilots from the outside. Yes, that's it, I was an outsider. I wasn't trusted to do my job, I wasn't given gateway door combos ("we only give those to employees"), I couldn't buy UPS stock, couldn't teach in the training center, couldn't give check rides (we still can't), and was generally treated like a bastard red-headed step-child. If I wanted BASIC creature comforts like food on a long flight or duty night, or even a flush toilet on my airplane my union had to NEGOTIATE for it with contract language. What a FedEx pilot takes for granted, we have to horse trade for.

UPS makes a lot of money because we are incredibly frugal (CHEAP) with everything, and everybody. Except my dental/medical which is pretty darned good. Just look at the different FredEx/UPS corporate philosophy when you compare our airport gateway facilities. FedEx normally has a big building with a flashy sign out front, the UPS gateway is usually too small, drafty, and dumpy. I'm suprised at the generally average office conditions UPS employees work in. Pilot facilities? Why would we waste ANY money on that at even our major gateways OR domiciles? Of course you won't have to worry about that, but it is a general corporate philosophy that you WILL become familiar with if you take the job here.

Just my 2 cents.

LightPilot

To those newly hired Mgt Pilots:
I am curious what the process was prior to and after the interview. For example:
After you applied, how were you notified for the interview?
Were you mailed a Flight Times Summary sheet to complete?
How long was the interview to hire process?
When was the medical/physical?

Thanks!
Congrats and best wishes!

BrownBusDriver

I hope to help correct this if it is the last thing I do before leaving this company. The days of an airline with in an airline are numbered.