What are we paying dues for?
07-26-2007, 09:21 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 122
What are we paying dues for?
The thing that bothers me the most is large amount of unanswered questions in this LOA. What are we paying the union to do? Send DW and BC out on a paid vacation and they come back and rubber stamp the company offer. On the forum alone I have read at least 30 valid questions that should be addressed in this LOA and nobody has an answer for them. In addition, it appears there should be separate LOA's for each base. And, the tax equalization should be a choice for each pilot. Many more that I will not get into now, but do you see my point? If all our MEC can provide for us to vote on is this vague POS, than I am all for a recall.
07-26-2007, 10:05 PM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 2,889
Lipout,
No secret I've been frustrated by some of the age 60 stuff and some of the responses from some of the block reps.
You'll probably get more audience if you realize a lot of this stuff ain't personal. Our MEC probably did make some mistakes on this--I was one guy who was pretty dead set against STVs.
Not trying to sound preachy--but I will say for whatever you think of the LOA (and I've voted no) Sleepy, Tony, and a few other guys have put in some serious overtime trying to do the best they can. I agree there are a lot of holes right now. I'm against the LOA. I think some of the MEC is out of touch with us. I also think we need to fix one issue at a time and keep this businesslike.
Recalling MEC officers is about impossible. Block reps, on the other hand, can be sniped off block by block. I think there is a good case for some new blood. However--if you want to do this--start picking a few good candidates out of your block and then figure out when your next LEC meeting is. You can make some changes and have some input. I've actually chaffed more at some of the comments from some of the reps after the LOA than I did over the money.
However--I recommend you stick to the issue at hand until August 11.
For what its worth--some of your MEC seem to be "getting it" that their crew force will give them more leverage. Some seem to be trying to listen.
The company's line on the dynamic situation in HKG is "we don't know yet, but we'll work it out..." I believe (perhaps somewhat niave) they will do their best to smooth out some of the rough spots. However, based on how they do BUSINESS, we need to make sure our LOA is fairly clear and tight. Voting against this LOA isn't personal--its just business.
My latest realization that we need to have things in writing? I did 5 days in a hotel on a week long pairing a few months back. I signed up for internet service and put it on company credit card. Lost a receipt for 2 days worth of internet service... Admin folks were in hub the other day helping with expense reports, and I was advised I could A) send a letter to my CP requesting approval for expense with lost receipt ($19.90) or B) eat it. Considering I had to call/pester DM enough last month about getting back on flight status, I decided just to eat this one. He might fix it with a pen stroke, but geez--do I really have to bug him (especially since he is in transition) to do all that when my calendar, my company credit card, and the other records all point to the fact I WAS in the Sheraton Waterside those days? The answer you'll get from the company is "hey--its just business" My answer on the LOA is the same--but without an malice or snide tones. When we are getting optimized, nickeled and dimed on expense reports, and fighting with CPs over "accepted fares", its kind of hard to accept that if we'll just dive on this grenade and go to these FDAs it will somehow all work out. I think there is a lot of room for clarifying a lot of these points you mentioned, as well as some other areas. If we say "please", and "NO thank you" instead of "why don't you *&^* shove this up you &^%&" I think we'll all get a lot farther along.
No secret I've been frustrated by some of the age 60 stuff and some of the responses from some of the block reps.
You'll probably get more audience if you realize a lot of this stuff ain't personal. Our MEC probably did make some mistakes on this--I was one guy who was pretty dead set against STVs.
Not trying to sound preachy--but I will say for whatever you think of the LOA (and I've voted no) Sleepy, Tony, and a few other guys have put in some serious overtime trying to do the best they can. I agree there are a lot of holes right now. I'm against the LOA. I think some of the MEC is out of touch with us. I also think we need to fix one issue at a time and keep this businesslike.
Recalling MEC officers is about impossible. Block reps, on the other hand, can be sniped off block by block. I think there is a good case for some new blood. However--if you want to do this--start picking a few good candidates out of your block and then figure out when your next LEC meeting is. You can make some changes and have some input. I've actually chaffed more at some of the comments from some of the reps after the LOA than I did over the money.
However--I recommend you stick to the issue at hand until August 11.
For what its worth--some of your MEC seem to be "getting it" that their crew force will give them more leverage. Some seem to be trying to listen.
The company's line on the dynamic situation in HKG is "we don't know yet, but we'll work it out..." I believe (perhaps somewhat niave) they will do their best to smooth out some of the rough spots. However, based on how they do BUSINESS, we need to make sure our LOA is fairly clear and tight. Voting against this LOA isn't personal--its just business.
My latest realization that we need to have things in writing? I did 5 days in a hotel on a week long pairing a few months back. I signed up for internet service and put it on company credit card. Lost a receipt for 2 days worth of internet service... Admin folks were in hub the other day helping with expense reports, and I was advised I could A) send a letter to my CP requesting approval for expense with lost receipt ($19.90) or B) eat it. Considering I had to call/pester DM enough last month about getting back on flight status, I decided just to eat this one. He might fix it with a pen stroke, but geez--do I really have to bug him (especially since he is in transition) to do all that when my calendar, my company credit card, and the other records all point to the fact I WAS in the Sheraton Waterside those days? The answer you'll get from the company is "hey--its just business" My answer on the LOA is the same--but without an malice or snide tones. When we are getting optimized, nickeled and dimed on expense reports, and fighting with CPs over "accepted fares", its kind of hard to accept that if we'll just dive on this grenade and go to these FDAs it will somehow all work out. I think there is a lot of room for clarifying a lot of these points you mentioned, as well as some other areas. If we say "please", and "NO thank you" instead of "why don't you *&^* shove this up you &^%&" I think we'll all get a lot farther along.
Last edited by Albief15; 07-26-2007 at 10:10 PM.
07-26-2007, 10:51 PM
#3
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 122
Albie, The point is that we pay good money to have these things researched in great detail before it is presented to us. I am saying now that our MEC is out of touch and are not the smartest deal makers on the planet. Maybe they need to scan the forums on the net and see what some of the brighter pilots have questions about and address them in our next proposal if this is turned down. If they don't, its time to get rid of them and the staff we are paying for.
07-26-2007, 11:43 PM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 394
Originally Posted by Albief15
My latest realization that we need to have things in writing? I did 5 days in a hotel on a week long pairing a few months back. I signed up for internet service and put it on company credit card. Lost a receipt for 2 days worth of internet service... Admin folks were in hub the other day helping with expense reports, and I was advised I could A) send a letter to my CP requesting approval for expense with lost receipt ($19.90) or B) eat it. Considering I had to call/pester DM enough last month about getting back on flight status, I decided just to eat this one. He might fix it with a pen stroke, but geez--do I really have to bug him (especially since he is in transition) to do all that when my calendar, my company credit card, and the other records all point to the fact I WAS in the Sheraton Waterside those days? The answer you'll get from the company is "hey--its just business"
07-27-2007, 12:16 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: MD-11 Capt
Posts: 330
Originally Posted by Lipout1
The thing that bothers me the most is large amount of unanswered questions in this LOA. What are we paying the union to do? Send DW and BC out on a paid vacation and they come back and rubber stamp the company offer. On the forum alone I have read at least 30 valid questions that should be addressed in this LOA and nobody has an answer for them. In addition, it appears there should be separate LOA's for each base. And, the tax equalization should be a choice for each pilot. Many more that I will not get into now, but do you see my point? If all our MEC can provide for us to vote on is this vague POS, than I am all for a recall.
Albief and TonyC were my biggest critics when I was trying to get the Union to give us more on translating some of the finer details of the contract when it first came out.
Everyone was going "read it yourself it's not the unions job"...Bunk!
Same thing on this LOA, and the age 60 issue.
There job is to communicate with this crew force....they haven't and this is what we are getting.
07-27-2007, 06:20 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 732
Originally Posted by Albief15
My latest realization that we need to have things in writing? I did 5 days in a hotel on a week long pairing a few months back. I signed up for internet service and put it on company credit card. Lost a receipt for 2 days worth of internet service... Admin folks were in hub the other day helping with expense reports, and I was advised I could A) send a letter to my CP requesting approval for expense with lost receipt ($19.90) or B) eat it. Considering I had to call/pester DM enough last month about getting back on flight status, I decided just to eat this one. He might fix it with a pen stroke, but geez--do I really have to bug him (especially since he is in transition) to do all that when my calendar, my company credit card, and the other records all point to the fact I WAS in the Sheraton Waterside those days? The answer you'll get from the company is "hey--its just business" My answer on the LOA is the same--but without an malice or snide tones. When we are getting optimized, nickeled and dimed on expense reports, and fighting with CPs over "accepted fares", its kind of hard to accept that if we'll just dive on this grenade and go to these FDAs it will somehow all work out. I think there is a lot of room for clarifying a lot of these points you mentioned, as well as some other areas. If we say "please", and "NO thank you" instead of "why don't you *&^* shove this up you &^%&" I think we'll all get a lot farther along.
If it makes you fatigued reading the pairing then it probably is. Make the call when you need to, it is our only Safety protection, the Company certainly is not looking at Fatigue models. They look at one thing, $$$$.
Sorry for changing the subject.
07-27-2007, 07:14 AM
#7
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by Lipout1
Albie, The point is that we pay good money to have these things researched in great detail before it is presented to us. I am saying now that our MEC is out of touch and are not the smartest deal makers on the planet. Maybe they need to scan the forums on the net and see what some of the brighter pilots have questions about and address them in our next proposal if this is turned down. If they don't, its time to get rid of them and the staff we are paying for.
Lipout,
I have a couple of comments. The first is that each link in this chain has its purpose. The company is trying to negotiate the best deal for them and it is usually based on dollars and future company growth with a safety foundation. The union is trying to negotiate the best deal for us and it is usually based on dollars and future family/financial growth for us, but also on quality of life and safety. Their job is to get us the best contract the company is willing to offer. After they feel they have the best the company will offer, not the best offer they want, then they hand it over to us. It is then our job to either say, "this is sufficient, or this is not acceptable to us." We are now in the last phase, and it is our responsibility to vote. I voted no for that reason. This LOA is not acceptable for reasons I have posted before. Mainly, STV and not having a yearly renewable LOA until we incorporate in a contract. Still, I voted no and the other members should do the same if this is unacceptable.
On another note, if you feel the union is out of touch with us or that they did not negotiate hard enough to get the best the company will offer, then we need to work to replace some of the the union officials at voting time. Better yet, run yourself.
Finally, and I am guilty of this, we need to send our issues to our block reps. I see the power this forum has in regards to communication, so I know ALPA and the company will read my words here. It is sad that we don't have our own system like this, but this is effective as seen by the LOA side letter. Still, we need to send these issues to our union leaders to use the official process in place of getting things changed. Also, they need to solicit more from us to see what is acceptable.
07-27-2007, 08:23 AM
#8
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: 767 Cap
Posts: 1,306
Originally Posted by Lipout1
The thing that bothers me the most is large amount of unanswered questions in this LOA. What are we paying the union to do? Send DW and BC out on a paid vacation and they come back and rubber stamp the company offer. On the forum alone I have read at least 30 valid questions that should be addressed in this LOA and nobody has an answer for them. In addition, it appears there should be separate LOA's for each base. And, the tax equalization should be a choice for each pilot. Many more that I will not get into now, but do you see my point? If all our MEC can provide for us to vote on is this vague POS, than I am all for a recall.
Just out of curiousity, how many times have you talked to your block rep? E-mailed him? Not just some anonymous post on a web forum. If we don't communicate with our reps, telling them of our issues and desires, they cannot be accused of not representing us.
BTW - After the age 60 deal, I doubt we will ever see another web-poll.
07-27-2007, 06:46 PM
#9
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 118
There should NEVER have been one LOA drawn up for two different cities, in two different countries, on two different continents, in two different hemispheres, with two different economies, and just ONE SET OF HARD NUMBERS for housing allowance, etc. This is gross incompetence on the part of our MEC/NC, frankly. There's also no need to reinvent the wheel here ... it would have been simple to peg a Captain's HOA/COLA to, say, the DOD allowance for an O-5, and peg an F/O's HOA/COLA to the DOD allowance for an O-4 for each particular city. The DOD has already done the economic survey, the scale reflects the different in rank, earnings, station in life, reasonable (i.e., not luxurious) standard of living, etc.
This is why we need PROFESSIONAL negotiators, not pilots who think that because they can fly a mighty fine single-engine ILS, it means they're ****e-hot at whatever else they attempt. This is no time for moon-lighting, folks.
This is why we need PROFESSIONAL negotiators, not pilots who think that because they can fly a mighty fine single-engine ILS, it means they're ****e-hot at whatever else they attempt. This is no time for moon-lighting, folks.
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