LOA and Age 60
07-30-2007, 06:06 AM
#21
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
Originally Posted by fedupbusdriver
I just forgot the smiley face to show that I was joking, I personally do not know Prez. I could just see the first lady vetoing his decision.
07-30-2007, 06:57 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: FDX MD11 FO
Posts: 183
Agreed
Originally Posted by Haywood JB
I would haste to say that when the MEC took their stance on the age 60 issue, it woke a lot of members up. Now instead of blindly following, ie speaking for me, we are questioning what exactly is said and voted upon.
HJB
HJB
I like most of our reps but I don't agree with how they are voting. If the LOA fails or passes by a very narrow margin then I think changes on the MEC are in order.
Last edited by SNIZ; 07-30-2007 at 06:57 AM. Reason: Content
07-30-2007, 07:11 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 CA
Posts: 150
Originally Posted by Lipout1
Prez or is it DW. How does the majority opinion at FDX ALPA have anything to do with segregation or the price of soy beans. The leadership is elected to represent the membership. If the membership wants something, the elected leaders are suppose to do it. This crap of we know better and are not going to listen to you is what will get them fired and causing the problems with this LOA.
The point I was trying to make, and it obviously went over your head, was that discrimination in any form is wrong. It is not morally justifiable. ALPA's stance against raising the retirement age was wrong from a political perspective. Our union was told as much from our Congressional supporters.
Why don't you lead the campaign to recall our MEC leadership and the Negotiating Committee. I sure that someone as eloquent as you could find the voice to make that happen.
Brown,
I'm not saying that changing one age for another is not any less a matter of discrimination. It is. The point here is, not compromising on Age 60 would lead ALPA into political irrelevance. We would be cut out of the process. Unfortunately, that's politics.
07-30-2007, 07:26 AM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 71
politicians and the people
Originally Posted by SNIZ
I think this is 100% accurate. We were in cruise mode after the contract and our MEC used up alot of "Unity Capital" on the age 60 decision. A great many of us, said to ourselves..."what are u guys doing?" Secondly, we don't get polled about the LOA and the NC negotiates this letter mostly in secret without membership input on the our goals for the LOA. Foul!
I like most of our reps but I don't agree with how they are voting. If the LOA fails or passes by a very narrow margin then I think changes on the MEC are in order.
I like most of our reps but I don't agree with how they are voting. If the LOA fails or passes by a very narrow margin then I think changes on the MEC are in order.
07-30-2007, 07:44 AM
#26
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 71
cut of out the process
Originally Posted by prezbear
Lipout,
I'm not saying that changing one age for another is not any less a matter of discrimination. It is. The point here is, not compromising on Age 60 would lead ALPA into political irrelevance. We would be cut out of the process. Unfortunately, that's politics.
I'm not saying that changing one age for another is not any less a matter of discrimination. It is. The point here is, not compromising on Age 60 would lead ALPA into political irrelevance. We would be cut out of the process. Unfortunately, that's politics.
07-30-2007, 08:38 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by ConnerP
I haven't heard anyone on the street say a NO vote is retaliation for age 60 but I have heard plenty say the LOA is a dog.
Your quote above is exactly the point. JL is doing his job. LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN.... JL is doing his job.
How many guys have you heard refer to JL as "a straight shooter" or "a stand up guy" or "one of the guys" or say that they "trust him"? The company thinks he has our ear because... HE DOES.
The problem is that JL is "the company". He is not "one of us"!
After all, does he or does he not sit across from us at the negotiating table? That is part of his job. Another part must be to sell us this LOA by negotiating directly with the membership via e-mail.
The phrase "my negotiating committee speaks for me" was not a FedEx original. It means for the company to negotiate at the bargaining table and not directly with the membership. It does not mean that the membership will automatically rubber stamp whatever the NC brings to them.
I'm out-
Conner
Your quote above is exactly the point. JL is doing his job. LET ME SAY THAT AGAIN.... JL is doing his job.
How many guys have you heard refer to JL as "a straight shooter" or "a stand up guy" or "one of the guys" or say that they "trust him"? The company thinks he has our ear because... HE DOES.
The problem is that JL is "the company". He is not "one of us"!
After all, does he or does he not sit across from us at the negotiating table? That is part of his job. Another part must be to sell us this LOA by negotiating directly with the membership via e-mail.
The phrase "my negotiating committee speaks for me" was not a FedEx original. It means for the company to negotiate at the bargaining table and not directly with the membership. It does not mean that the membership will automatically rubber stamp whatever the NC brings to them.
I'm out-
Conner
07-30-2007, 08:47 AM
#28
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by prezbear
....In 1896, the US Supreme Court upheld the ability of states and localities to mandate racial segregation. President Wilson showed continued political support for that decision when he segregated the civil service in 1913. I think it would be fairly accurate to say that an overwhelming majority of Americans believed that racial segregation was the right thing to do in the first half of the twentieth century. It wasn't until the 1954 Supreme Court decision of Brown versus the Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas that the tide really began to turn against segregation. Would anyone admit that an overwhelming majority of Americans in the last century were correct in their thinking?...
...Like it or not, our stand against changing the Age 60 rule was a stand for age discrimination....Prez
...Like it or not, our stand against changing the Age 60 rule was a stand for age discrimination....Prez
...but, do you think their are any young African American pilots that may be against Age 60?
...why is the "Senior Discount" at Denny's still legal?
...why are their "Adult Only" neighborhoods, where one person must be age 55 and where no one with children under 18 can live?
(...now, remember we use to have racially divided neighborhoods too)
The simple reason why their is an upper age limit in flying is because it is a Seniority based system --- let me repeat --- it is a Seniority based system --- one more time, it's a Seniority based system.
...AND a Seniority based System ONLY, and I repeat ONLY, works when the junior people have faith, and a formal mechanism, by which they themselves become Senior one day.
If not --- no one would agree to it. Would you have agreed as a new hire to work under a seniority based system if they told you, you'd never be Senior one day?
Would you work at a carrier, where you realized all the guys that were hired in the last 10 years were younger then you?
No.
So pleaseeeeeeeeeee let's not equate racial segreation (where an individual cannot change their race) to a seniority based system, where in fact the underlying linchpin to success is that the junior people will eventually become senior.
(OK...just waiting for your reply that says --- "We'll they will, just 5 yrs later". With that mentality, you'd really be missing the point)
...and for what's it's worth -- this LOA has nothing to do with Age 60. It's woefully substandard on it's own accord.
07-30-2007, 09:53 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,068
Originally Posted by Gooch121
Anyone know the minimum age, under ICAO, to become an airline pilot?
Someone once told me it was 21, but I don't know for sure.
If 21 is the lowest age, under ICAO, a person can become an airline pilot, then how does that stack up against the FAA minimum of 23....
Don't see people standing on the street corners complaining about that bit of age discrimination do ya'.
Someone once told me it was 21, but I don't know for sure.
If 21 is the lowest age, under ICAO, a person can become an airline pilot, then how does that stack up against the FAA minimum of 23....
Don't see people standing on the street corners complaining about that bit of age discrimination do ya'.
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