So what you are saying is that if a bid closed (theoretically) on 29 Sept. and the law changed on 1 Oct. the over 60 crowd would have to serve as engineers untill they run another system bid (again theoretically) 3 years later? Once they did run this bid, is there anything to prevent the company from training out of seniority order (ie passover pay)?

What this leads to is a 60 yr old sitting on the panel for 3 years at panel pay, then getting bypassed (no training cost to the company) for his last 2yrs.

Keep a guy on preperty for 2 yrs of capt pay vice 5 and incur no extra training costs...sounds like a fiscally responsible thing to me, but what do I know?

 

[QUOTE=Albief15;232681]

If the MEC is really playing poker here and thinks that they can give lip service to the over 60 crowd (we support retro and put it in the Obestar language) while protecting the "home team" of under 60 types by basically closing the door to those same folks, I am going to be in shock. Maybe they can, and perhaps I have underestimated their intentions.
QUOTE]


Albie, I can't speak for J.G. or the MEC. I did ask DW this question at one of the Hub turn meetings a few months ago. I also got the same answer from my block rep.

He said something to the fact (I am paraphrasing) If the Law changed to allow existing over 60 seniority list pilots (i.e. S/O's) to be able to return to Pilot status (to front seats), that there would have to be a Vacancy bid where physically qualified over 60 folks be awarded the seat from a Standard Posting Bid. He said that he would not support or endorse a Carte Blanche anyone who wants to move back up front can at their beckon call.

Also the contract has no provision for it

So it is not like this hasn't been addressed by the MEC. I believe the consistent message is has been: that should the Law change S/O's will have to be awarded a position via a vacancy Bid. Just like anyone else on the seniority list.

I am going out on a limb here...........If the company doesn't want to re-train over 60 guys( and I assume they don't), especailly ones that are 63 or close to it, ALPA (again IMHO) will or must insist that they get passover pay just as a 58 year old gets if he/she is denied training. This would be a win win for most of us........nobody currently up front gets bumped or loses seniority Everybody over 60 (who is physically qualified to be a Pilot aka front seater) that was denied training guy is pay protected. I am sure they will attempt to wiggle out of paying, but again I will assume ALPA would grieve it.

If the company really plans on trying to put together a Monster Bid with a training plan for the next 3 years they will have their hands full. Aircraft deliveries and current staffing don't justify it............(we really don't have a large net gain of airplanes in the next 3 years anyway, parking all Dc-10's and losing 2 of them back to a lessor as well as parking a few more 727's.)

I'll admit Anything can happen and nothing would really surprise me. The delay in the CDG and HKG FDA bid does make you wonder, although I tend to believe it is because the 757 Program has been delayed. The PAX/Freighter conversion contracts were slower than expected. EFB issues were delayed as well as the FedEx 757 Simulator delivery. For some reason the company doesn't want to send line guys to ATL because the DAL simulator is configured much different than our future aircraft. Maybe our 757 delivery schedule has been delayed. Maybe it is a little of all of the above.

Anyway, sorry for the rant but that is my 2 cents. Good luck with your Political agenda!

 

Maybe issues with the FDA(s).

 

Wouldn't surpise me if VISA issues were never addressed.........until NOW

 

According to my sources, part of the reason is that DAL, after pledging full support and cooperation with our program, is weasling out of it. Instead of reasonable training slots for 6 guys going through the pilot (i.e. prototype) training program, they coughed up a couple early morning and late night periods. Perhaps enough sim sessions to do 2 guys. 75 training for flexes is getting pushed back and they are actively looking for another training facility.

 

QUOTE]He said something to the fact (I am paraphrasing) If the Law changed to allow existing over 60 seniority list pilots (i.e. S/O's) to be able to return to Pilot status (to front seats), that there would have to be a Vacancy bid where physically qualified over 60 folks be awarded the seat from a Standard Posting Bid. He said that he would not support or endorse a Carte Blanche anyone who wants to move back up front can at their beckon call.[/QUOTE]

Ah, may be true, but keep in mind that they let guys that turned 60 go right to the back seats without any sort of vacancy or seat bid. Turn 60, Happy Birthday, Welcome to 727 s/o class........

 

Thats true, and since I am relatively new I'm not sure, but I have been told that the program you reference was a gentlemens agreement to keep these fine folks employed and paid, rather than waiting for a bid (seems to be 18 months or so!!). A great deal for everyone I would think... no lack of bodies for the company and no lack of pay for our elder statesmen/women!

 

Ah, may be true, but keep in mind that they let guys that turned 60 go right to the back seats without any sort of vacancy or seat bid. Turn 60, Happy Birthday, Welcome to 727 s/o class........[/QUOTE]

That is True, but as the Back seats are are full and getting fuller of 60+ guys, and now that hiring has all but stopped so the Young S/O's can't bid up, I can see a possibility of that deal coming to and end quickly and forcing guys to actually bid and the S/O position as they near retirement (assuming that no quick passage of the Age 60 thing).

 

I don't think so...

CBA Sec 24.E.6

A pilot who has a legal restriction that prohibits him from flying in his current crew status shall be accommodated in another crew status, if any, from which he is not legally restricted consistent with his seniority and standing bid.

Guess that depends on the definition of "accommodate". But, I would think that the precedent has been set. "Accommodate" means they can go back when they turn 60, without a bid vacancy.

 

However, it doesn't say anything about going from the backseat to the front seat...hmmmmm wonder how this will play out?