CBA Openers
10-26-2007, 01:11 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
You bet you arse I am a conditional union member. As is everyone else here. For me trade unionism ranks about #4 on my list of priorities. Please understand ALPA did not get me my job. Nor do they sign my paycheck.
That does not mean that I am not glad to be part of the brotherhood and I do not think that we would be better off without a union. But union power like management needs to be checked. Voluntary membership made us a much more powerful organization.
If the democrats ever get the secret ballot removed from union authorization ballots all the new Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, and BMW auto plants will follow Ford and GM down to mexico.
And yes they work on all our behalf's, but the leadership is also answerable to ALPA national, the teamster, the teachers union, SoPlease don't put me in your category.d any other national "workers" commitee. SOmetimes what is best for ALPA national is not best for the FEDEX MEC. See the LOA.
That does not mean that I am not glad to be part of the brotherhood and I do not think that we would be better off without a union. But union power like management needs to be checked. Voluntary membership made us a much more powerful organization.
If the democrats ever get the secret ballot removed from union authorization ballots all the new Toyota, Hyundai, Honda, and BMW auto plants will follow Ford and GM down to mexico.
And yes they work on all our behalf's, but the leadership is also answerable to ALPA national, the teamster, the teachers union, SoPlease don't put me in your category.d any other national "workers" commitee. SOmetimes what is best for ALPA national is not best for the FEDEX MEC. See the LOA.
Please don't lump me in with you as a Conditional Union member.
I am a Proud Union member and have been for 20 plus years.
May I ask why you wanted to be an Airline Pilot in the first place?
Was it the Potential Pay?
Was it the potential time off?
Was it both?
ALPA may not have gotten you your Job for you and while they don't sign your paycheck, they got that for you too as well as and your A and B plan retirement and work rules.
As far as UNION POWER needing to be checked, I think the current Administration has done more than enough in that department. They don't need more help in that area. Now if they would only put in check Corp Greed.
And I hope that the IAW is able to secure representation at Toyota and Honda. One day I might just buy one of those New Japenese Trucks , as soon as they are built by UNION labor. Unions help create the Middle class in America.
10-26-2007, 03:41 PM
#42
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
Critics choice
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
You bet you arse I am a conditional union member. As is everyone else here. For me trade unionism ranks about #4 on my list of priorities. Please understand ALPA did not get me my job. Nor do they sign my paycheck.............
). Based on reported position on APC, I assume your fairly junior here. If you have listened to the history of unionism at FedEx, as told by the guys who have lived it, maybe you would have a different slant on unions in general and FDX ALPA in particular. Ask your courier about how not being represented by a union has affected his benefits at FedEx. I'm glad you put unionism as high as #4 on your list of priorities, I would probably place it about the same. Where we part company is how important we consider ALPA in providing the QOL we enjoy as pilots and the income we receive for it. I assure you, given a choice, FedEx would have you enjoy a lower level of satisfaction and income while continuing to make this the successful company it is today.
Last edited by dckozak; 10-26-2007 at 03:46 PM.
10-26-2007, 07:12 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
I am a proud member too (7 years) my card says good standing just like yours. What part of I don't think we would be better off with out the union don't you understand? Or did I not grovel enough for you. How is this: Thank You ALPA Thank You I owe you my never ending loyalty and blind obedience. Here, take an extra 2% and give it to whichever democrat you think will raise my taxes the most.
As far as conditional member you bet, just because I know what would make me quit and you haven't figured out what would make you quit doesn't change either of our status, both members.
As for why I wanted to be an airline pilot, it was for the chicks. That was when I was 15, time off and pay were secondary then.
As far as conditional member you bet, just because I know what would make me quit and you haven't figured out what would make you quit doesn't change either of our status, both members.
As for why I wanted to be an airline pilot, it was for the chicks. That was when I was 15, time off and pay were secondary then.
10-26-2007, 07:29 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,193
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
...By reading this forum, the average guy thought the LOA was going to fail miserably. Even though I supported it, I too was under the impression it was going to fail.
When it passed by close to 70% I was surprised.
When it passed by close to 70% I was surprised.
...because if less then one-fifth (i.e. 19%) of the pilots had changed there vote to "No" the LOA would have failed (49% to 51%).
Those pesky statistics --- you can make them say anything you want
10-26-2007, 07:34 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Originally Posted by dckozak
Well I guess we can expect you to do your part by being the sideline critic, ready to cast a stone when (in IYHO) its warranted and anything negotiated by your fellow pilots (yes, your UNION, your ALPA is the people you fly with, not Washington lawyers ).
).I don't believe the LOA was negotiated. I think the company offered it and we accepted. And when the BS flag went up on the LOA's unforgivable faults the union LEADERSHIP continued on as if the compaints were just noise in the background.
Only when the junior guys, who you think are such young punks, pi#$ed and moaned JL came thru with a shorter STV period. NOT ONE PEEP OUT OF OUR UNION about STV being either a bad deal or something that needed immediate improvement.
Yeah it's our union. But it is run by individuals who can choose when and if they want to listen to the membership.
10-26-2007, 07:40 PM
#46
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Originally Posted by DLax85
Wow, I thought it only "passed" by 19% of the vote (68% vs 32%)
...because if less then one-fifth (i.e. 19%) of the pilots had changed there vote to "No" the LOA would have failed (49% to 51%).
Those pesky statistics --- you can make them say anything you want
...because if less then one-fifth (i.e. 19%) of the pilots had changed there vote to "No" the LOA would have failed (49% to 51%).
Those pesky statistics --- you can make them say anything you want
10-26-2007, 07:47 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,193
Originally Posted by Gunter
And that was the voting membership. Just disregard the 5% who were less than 12 months on the property when the vote occurred.
How many total votes were cast? Was it just over 2,500??
If so, that bottom 5% of the pilots (about 250 or so, I believe), who were "too junior" to vote, would have actually represented an even bigger percentage in the LOA balloting, if all had voted.
But alas, we MUST MOVE ON!
10-27-2007, 08:14 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
Originally Posted by Gunter
And that was the voting membership. Just disregard the 5% who were less than 12 months on the property when the vote occurred.
Did the Probation Pilots get to vote on the Contract?
Do Probation Pilots get to vote in General elections?
It is generally a good thing.
Good because generally new folks still have the New Hire euphoria (like most of us did) and are just glad to be here. They haven't had too much experience in getting the shaft from ACP's, MGT and CRS.....yet. Plus with them being AT Will employees, MGT still has a little more influence over them.
10-27-2007, 01:25 PM
#49
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 90
Originally Posted by RedeyeAV8r
The probation folks don't pay dues (thus they can't vote) because they are technically not completely part the class and craft yet, until they are off probation. A probation Pilot is an "AT Will" employee verses a "Just Cause" employee. Guys/Gals may not like it but that is the way it is and that is the way it has been for a long time. This has been in ALPA C & B Ls for a long time so it is nothing new.
Did the Probation Pilots get to vote on the Contract?
Do Probation Pilots get to vote in General elections?
It is generally a good thing.
Good because generally new folks still have the New Hire euphoria (like most of us did) and are just glad to be here. They haven't had too much experience in getting the shaft from ACP's, MGT and CRS.....yet. Plus with them being AT Will employees, MGT still has a little more influence over them.
Did the Probation Pilots get to vote on the Contract?
Do Probation Pilots get to vote in General elections?
It is generally a good thing.
Good because generally new folks still have the New Hire euphoria (like most of us did) and are just glad to be here. They haven't had too much experience in getting the shaft from ACP's, MGT and CRS.....yet. Plus with them being AT Will employees, MGT still has a little more influence over them.
Was there probation here when you got hired? Some of these new hires have been ALPA members for longer than you have most likely! A lot have been thru the "wars" at other union carriers.
Although, "glad to be here", I'll bet they can think on their own and understand "getting the shaft" from all of those you listed. Maybe they aren't as green as you were were when hired or those here have educated them well BUT some of the adament opponents of the LOA that I heard were on probation!
I voted NO. I'm over it and will move on. I just won't bid it. Your argument though holds no water.
Conner out
10-27-2007, 02:37 PM
#50
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,838
Originally Posted by ConnerP
Redeye--- Bull!
Was there probation here when you got hired? Some of these new hires have been ALPA members for longer than you have most likely! A lot have been thru the "wars" at other union carriers.
Although, "glad to be here", I'll bet they can think on their own and understand "getting the shaft" from all of those you listed. Maybe they aren't as green as you were were when hired or those here have educated them well BUT some of the adament opponents of the LOA that I heard were on probation!
I voted NO. I'm over it and will move on. I just won't bid it. Your argument though holds no water.
Conner out
Was there probation here when you got hired? Some of these new hires have been ALPA members for longer than you have most likely! A lot have been thru the "wars" at other union carriers.
Although, "glad to be here", I'll bet they can think on their own and understand "getting the shaft" from all of those you listed. Maybe they aren't as green as you were were when hired or those here have educated them well BUT some of the adament opponents of the LOA that I heard were on probation!
I voted NO. I'm over it and will move on. I just won't bid it. Your argument though holds no water.
Conner out
First I really don't care how you voted.
Second I really don't care if you want to bid an FDA or Not.
Both of those are up to you.
Now Have you relaxes yet? Good
True there was NO Probation here when I was hired because we had NO union. As soon as we got our first contract we a probationary period for new hires in Year 1.
What I said was fact. It isn't my opinion and whether you agree with it or not doesn't change the facts.
All new hires are on probation for 1 year and they are AT Will employees during that time. It is Because they are "AT Will" employeesa thae they aren't required to pay dues and thus the reason they can't vote.
If you came here from another ALPA carrier as I did, even if you wore a 20 year ALPA PIN you are still on Probation in year 1. I didn't make the rules but that is how it is. I never sad they can't think for themselves. This is how it is at all other Properties.
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