Actually, there was probation. The difference is that prior to the contract, you never got OFF probation. You were always "at will".

 

Gentleman...the point being made was that the 250+ guys who were still on probation and couldn't vote, were/are some of the the guys who are most susceptible to living in the FDA long term, due to their inability to upgrade in any other seat or bid back to Memphis if they do bid it.

If/when they upgrade to 757FO in Memphis, they'll be the most suspetible to non-voluntary STVs.

Given that, it's my humble opinion if those 250+ pilots were allowed to vote in August, it wouldn't have been 68% "Yes" to 32% "No" ---- because the STV verbiage alone turned most of these guys against it.

Yeah, yeah we all understand first year guys can't vote because they are on probation --- the point was the margin by which the LOA "passed" was only 19% and (IMHO) it would have been even lower if the very most junior folks in the company could have voted.

A'o Aloha!

 

Those pesky statistics --- you can make them say anything you want[/quote]

And you just did.....

 

And you just did.....[/quote]

Yes, because I believe the LOA required a "majority" of the votes to pass (i.e. >50%) not a "plurality".

 

Yes, because I believe the LOA required a "majority" of the votes to pass (i.e. >50%) not a "plurality".[/quote]

So a non-vote would count as a no vote? Maybe you can strengthen your position by giving us some examples of where, in the history of our great nation, this has occured.

 

Yeah, it would have been [(2500*.32)+250]/(2500+250)= 1250/2750= .38.

Wow, a whopping 38% "no" vote, assuming ever 1st year guy voted and voted "No." Big difference, 62% yes, 38% no.

Still don't understand your 19% margin, unless, as mentioned, you choose to regard every non-vote as one for the "No" side. And as mention above, that's a crock.

 

68% .... 32%....19%.... = 100% history

 

Yes.

Ignore history at your own peril.

 

More like the future for about about 165 souls immediately, and countless others for many, many, many years to come.

The ramifications of those numbers will endure long into the future.

History? It was was made, alright.

 

Agree completely, we'll be sucking up the substandard LOA for awhile and I hope our union can put a stronger effort into improving the FDA's next time, maybe even poll and listen to those with FDA and STV experience at that point.

By history I mean a debate on how the LOA might have failed is a somewhat academic at this point.