2/8 IPA advisory
02-12-2008, 04:11 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by L'il J.Seinfeld
Specifically, it will be a 747 displacement bid, which includes some over 60 but under 63 FE's
02-12-2008, 04:48 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by JRT123
Why do you mention "under 63 FE's..? I know other airlines who's payscale is different for each airplane will hold back the guy getting older and not train him for a new seat but pay him the higher rate if he's near 63/63 &1/2. But UPS pays the same for each seat so if the guy is 64, can't he go back to the left seat? Is this an IPA contractual limit?
UPS has bypass bidding to save on training costs. Those bypassed will get pay for whatever seat their seniority can hold and have been awarded, but they will be kept in their current seats to actually fly. So, that is where the 63 age comes in. If within 2 years of retirement, you can be awarded this scenario.
02-12-2008, 04:57 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by L'il J.Seinfeld
I think we all knew there would be a displacement bid by the end of February. Specifically, it will be a 747 displacement bid, which includes some over 60 but under 63 FE's that presumably want to be capts again. The question is what happens with the pilot eligible FEs from the DC-8? Also, how many, if any, junior capts will lose their seats?
Am I not understanding what's going on?
Am I not understanding what's going on?
Lil' J,
The way I understand the situation is this (and I have been known to be wrong before - just ask my wife
):1. Correct on the 747 displacement. Those FE's, if eligible to get back upfront, can displace back upfront to whatever their seniority can hold.
2. As for the -8, since there will be a realignment portion of this bid, the eligible FE's could bid for those vacancies, as well as secondary awards. Unless UPS actually displaces FE's from the -8 as well as the 747, these are the only places that they could get to.
02-12-2008, 05:10 AM
#24
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Originally Posted by L'il J.Seinfeld
I think we all knew there would be a displacement bid by the end of February. Specifically, it will be a 747 displacement bid, which includes some over 60 but under 63 FE's that presumably want to be capts again. The question is what happens with the pilot eligible FEs from the DC-8? Also, how many, if any, junior capts will lose their seats?
Am I not understanding what's going on?
Am I not understanding what's going on?
If a Realignment Vacancy Bid specifies, for instance, 10 classic crews to be realigned (10 each CA, FO, FE), that number of classic crews will either leave voluntarily by bidding for the available vacancies, or will be displaced from the seat in a subsequent displacement. The steps are covered beginning on page 323 of contract.
How many lose their seats depends upon how many vacancies are in the Realignment Vacancy Bid, where they are, and how many of them are awarded to classic guys. When it gets to the Displacement Bid, a lot can happen, and depends upon where those "primary" displacees choose to go, where the "secondary" displacees that are bumped go, and so forth. Some may choose to stay in their plane but downgrade, some may decide to move to a more junior plane in the same seat, some may choose not to go to ANC and downgrade, and those on the very bottom will not have any choice. It will be very interesting.
Last edited by Roberto; 02-12-2008 at 05:24 AM.
02-12-2008, 05:22 AM
#25
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Not exactly ...
Originally Posted by JRT123
Why do you mention "under 63 FE's..? I know other airlines who's payscale is different for each airplane will hold back the guy getting older and not train him for a new seat but pay him the higher rate if he's near 63/63 &1/2. But UPS pays the same for each seat so if the guy is 64, can't he go back to the left seat? Is this an IPA contractual limit?
UPS DOES pay the same for each AIRCRAFT. Very big difference if you ask me ...
And if you understand the difference, it explains why someone who "retired" to the FE seat at 60+ would want to return to a Captains seat on any aircraft that they could hold.
Just my guess, but you may be confusing our one payscale across the fleet with most other airlines that have different payscales for different aircraft type and/or sizes. One pay fits all aircraft at UPS ... NOT all seats. Except for maybe management, but lets not go there, I don't even know what they make anyway ...
Clear as mud ...
Later, Brown CC
Last edited by CactusCrew; 02-12-2008 at 06:29 AM.
02-12-2008, 05:25 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by Roberto
DC8 FE's can bid with everyone else in the Realignment Vacancy Bid that precedes a Displacement Bid, but cannot displace anyone. They can only be awarded a vacancy.
If a Realignment Vacancy Bid specifies, for instance, 10 classic crews to be realigned (10 each CA, FO, FE), that number of classic crews will either leave voluntarily by bidding for the available vacancies, or will be displaced from the seat in a subsequent displacement. The steps are covered beginning on page 323 of contract.
How many lose their seats depends upon how many vacancies are in the Realignment Vacancy Bid, and where they are. When it gets to the Displacement Bid, a lot can happen, and depends upon where those "primary" displacees choose to go, where the "secondary" displacess that are bumped go, and so forth. Some may choose to stay in their plane but downgrade, some may decide to move to a more junior plane in the same seat, some may not choose not to go to ANC and downgrade, and those on the very bottom will not have any choice. It will be very interesting.
If a Realignment Vacancy Bid specifies, for instance, 10 classic crews to be realigned (10 each CA, FO, FE), that number of classic crews will either leave voluntarily by bidding for the available vacancies, or will be displaced from the seat in a subsequent displacement. The steps are covered beginning on page 323 of contract.
How many lose their seats depends upon how many vacancies are in the Realignment Vacancy Bid, and where they are. When it gets to the Displacement Bid, a lot can happen, and depends upon where those "primary" displacees choose to go, where the "secondary" displacess that are bumped go, and so forth. Some may choose to stay in their plane but downgrade, some may decide to move to a more junior plane in the same seat, some may not choose not to go to ANC and downgrade, and those on the very bottom will not have any choice. It will be very interesting.
Welcome to ANC ... 
I've already begun the mental preparation and done some household improvements to prepare for the inevitable ... Turds do roll downhill to the bottom
Later, Brown CC
02-12-2008, 11:18 AM
#27
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Originally Posted by 1800 RVR
2. As for the -8, since there will be a realignment portion of this bid, the eligible FE's could bid for those vacancies, as well as secondary awards. Unless UPS actually displaces FE's from the -8 as well as the 747, these are the only places that they could get to.
02-13-2008, 07:20 AM
#29
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Posts: 191
Originally Posted by Swedish Blender
I thought the over 60 FEs could only be awarded a primary vacancy under the contract.
But who knows? Neither UPS or the IPA have come out with any info. For all we know they're making some side deal that could be the best or worst thing that could ever happen to us. Who knows?
02-13-2008, 12:58 PM
#30
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Posts: 213
Guys (Girls),
Got off the phone with HT earlier today and got some of the skinny.
Originally, as noted in the advisory, the Union wanted the company to "frontload" the captain seat to avoid unnecessary training events, create orginal vacancies across all growing fleets, and allow all age 60 guys to go to any VACANCY they could hold (that would have been a bummer imo) but that is not what prompted the advisory. What prompted the advisory is the fact that at a time when we are gaining a net positive amount of airframes, not only are people going to lose status and be forced to change domiciles, but it was going to create a net loss of captains system wide. The Union thought the latter was unacceptable. Hence the advisory. Hope this sheds some light.
Got off the phone with HT earlier today and got some of the skinny.
Originally, as noted in the advisory, the Union wanted the company to "frontload" the captain seat to avoid unnecessary training events, create orginal vacancies across all growing fleets, and allow all age 60 guys to go to any VACANCY they could hold (that would have been a bummer imo) but that is not what prompted the advisory. What prompted the advisory is the fact that at a time when we are gaining a net positive amount of airframes, not only are people going to lose status and be forced to change domiciles, but it was going to create a net loss of captains system wide. The Union thought the latter was unacceptable. Hence the advisory. Hope this sheds some light.
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