Delco92

We start by asking our union why 70% of us OPPOSED the lobbing to raise age 60 and DW took it upon himself to do what he wanted.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080219/air_l...ying.html?.v=1

Gunter

Looking at the percentages, it looks like the manning in the Boeing should theoretically even out:

Capts - 260
FOs -275
SOs - 265

Any wagers on if/when there will be a 727 Excess Bid in the next 18-24 months?

I don't think an excess on the FO seat is going to happen. Possible but not likely. The possibility comes as the company goes from 90 to 79 planes...

I think the more senior FOs would take the opportunity to go into wide seats that are already overmanned in an excess bid. The bottom feeder FOs who can only hold SO are probably safe.

Of course all this overmanning will start in earnest later this year with 727s and DC10s going away and be over by 2009 as the bid for the 777, more 757s and more wide aircraft arrives.

MEMFO4Ever

Stupid or just uncomfortable? The company should stay lean. New hires don't help seniority, retirements do. As I learned at another airline, the guys ahead of me affect quality of life, the guys behind me affect when/if I get furloughed. Pretty simple actually.

But I am sure you will disagree.

subicpilot

Not sure I follow your logic. Adding people increases your percentage seniority without causing your seniority number to change. Being #400 out of 401 is much lower seniority than #400 of 800. Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us on the advanced math they taught at that "other" airline.

Busboy

It makes perfect sense to me.

It doesn't matter how many guys are behind you, for quality of life. Adding 30 guys below me doesn't help me get the line I want.

And, if you're seniority number is 401...it doesn't matter if there's 2,000 guys junior to you, if the company decides it only needs 400. It just means the company wasted money hiring the extra 2,000 guys.

Ask somebody with a seniority number of around 50, if hiring pilots improves his QOL.

subicpilot

Your logic is astounding, Dr. McCoy...

First off, as long as there is one guy senior to you, you may NEVER get the line you want, if he decides he wants it. That's just how seniority works. However, if 30 guys fall in below you, that means additional flying, more lines to choose from, and maybe you get your 3rd choice instead of your 15th. I'd call that a QOL improvement.


The ratio, and the total numbers both matter. You can have seniority #2, but if there's only two of you at the airline, then you're the bottom guy...rocket last. Likewise you can be #2000, but if the company hires 10,000 guys underneath you, and no one above you retires, then you're doing pretty good, no? And your relative seniority increased without a single retirement. But I guess according to your second statement, even this wouldn't be any good for you because if the company decided they only needed 2001 pilots, you'd be screwed...

The reason the #50 seniority guy in your example doesn't benefit much from new hiring is that his ratio is relatively unaffected. 50/4000 isn't much different than 50/4050. But if you're #3700, then 3700/4050, vs 3700/4000 might be the difference between being a line holder vs. reserve, or getting your 3rd choice for vacation instead of your 10th.

All this without one single step in upward movement through retirements.

So of all the people on the property who should be agreeing that new hiring is all good, the guys near the bottom should realize this the most, instead of just throwing trash remarks like "furlough pad" around.

DLax85

The "percent" your bidding is meaningless, it's all about the raw #s ---- especially when your bid pack is constantly shrinking, like the DC-10 and the 727 have over the past few years.

You can be bidding at 50% in the backseat of the Boeing and it doesn't theoretically gaurantee you that you can even hold a line, because there are more than twice as many people in the seat as there are lines in the bid pack.

subicpilot

Are you trying to say that 50% isn't better than, say, 75%?

Busboy

So...If we hire people, we'll get more flying?

Interesting....

DLax85

Yes...they could add another 2000 SOs in the back of the Boeing, but if the bidpack doesn't grow and the folks in front don't move along, your chances of holding a line --- or a certain line you want --- does not increase.

All they do is add more reserve lines --- go check out the Boeing bidpack.