Albie -

Another great post --- very insightful overall --- thanks for continuing to take the time to post here.

Not sure if I can agree with the tidbit above though.

I believe you were making this statement relative to DW's influence (...or supposed lack of influence) in getting "retro added" last year.

If so, it's pretty clear to me the issues are NOT similar.

Without SOs in the back, the rest of ALPA National (except NWA) didn't have a dog in the fight, when it came to adding retro verbiage for "active flightdeck crewmembers" --- thus, DW's influence was huge.

That's just not the same as electing folks for national-level positions --- every airline may directly or indirectly have a dog in that fight.

Once again, I agree with the vast majority of your post(s) --- but think we should keep clear about past events/agendas.

Thanks again for all your dedicated service.

In Unity,

DLax

 

Seeing as how most other airlines pay scales top out at 12 yrs of service ALPA is not getting anymore money by keeping the over 60 around. Reason being.... I doubt seriously there are any captains at any Major ALPA carrier with less than 12 yrs on the property.

Don't like the Age 60 thing? Thank the Europeans!

 

At present, don't we have several Captains with less than 12 years on property? Continental has quite a few as well, as well as the America West side of UsAirways. I don't know about Alaska, but I suppose it may be possible there too and with all of the over-50 DAL guys who left with their retirement deal a few years back, it seems like it would be possible that they have less than 12 year Cap's as well, although again I'm not sure.

 

Thank the Europeans? Clearly you must be thanking them daily.

That kind of thinking is ridiculous. Since when do we, the US, follow suit from the Europeans or anyone for that matter? I'm not saying it's right but we have always been a leader not a follower on intl issues. We are one of only 3 countries that aren't on the metric system - I don't see us yearning to change anytime soon. Do you think every other country out there follows our TSA carry-on luggage rules? Ever deadheaded inner-Asia before? Forget the Europeans - thank DW, he deserves all your praises.

 

So, as you are willing to call my thinking moronic, let me point out that the majority of ALPA's dues were coming from the passenger carriers. Their ranks were loaded, just as ours have been, with Highly compensated Captain's at the top of their pay scales. I don't believe the non-member ranks have been that fat at other carriers at the top of the scale.
And as far as your other point, I moved into a W/B Captain seat with five years left to max out my pay. The guy who left at 60 ahead of me was most likely at the top of the scale (15 years for us) so the difference in our compensation was fairly significant. Now, They are coming back, at the top of the scale again for five years worth of top -of-the-scale dues money.
I don't think it's that difficult to understand.

 

Yeah. You're right. ALPA made probably the most important change in their history, by supporting the age 65 change, because they wanted the dues money from the over 60 guys.

Of course, if they really wanted all that "extra" money from all the old guys...Wouldn't they have fought for retroactivity for everyone? So, they could get all those senior guys back and paying those big dues?

 

Well, I'll concede that point. I just can't figure out why on earth they would so readily roll over on this just because a bunch of Eurotrash were letting their old guys fly. It just doesn't make sense. I'm a skeptic. I believe Money makes the world go 'round and with the hit they took in furloughs at the pax carriers,they are hurting. If you kick three thousand guys off the bottom of a list, nationally, and you allow guys at the top to stay five more years, aren't you getting more $$$ effectively? I think so but I'm not sure if this was the driving force or not. All I know is it isn't doing them much good Member-Relations wise.

 

Uh Albie,..... isn't this exactly what they did when they went to the back of the DC-10 and 727? Not all, but a pretty fair amount worked for free or less until they got the DW reward. Oops, I'm supposed to forgive and move on, sorry. Of course, it will be a lot easier when I see his sorry 6 o'clock doing a night hub turn with the soiled masses that he stuck it too. Does ALPA do night hub turns in Herndon?

 

Extremely poor choice of words. Nobody "allowed" any of the junior guys to bid anything they couldn't hold. A large percentage of folks are experiencing a situation unprecedented in the history of this company. To try to rationalize it by explaining it away as you did minimizes and trivializes the impact it obviously has on all of our families' lives. That being said, it's part of this business, and we all need to accept that downgrades/displacements/excesses/furloughs are part and parcel of the game.

 

I'm not thanking them at all. Where do you think the age 65 came from if not them? Just most of the posts about the age 60 thing are "Ready, Fire, Aim". Some people are ready to shoot anyone over 60 in the left seat. Or right seat for that matter.

As for the TSA rules it's nothing more than keeping honest people honest. You know as well as I that is worthless if someone really wants to get on a jet with something.

And yes, I've DH'd intra Asia quite a bit.

Don't have it in me to praise dw.