This is where I got my "facts"

https://crewroom.alpa.org/DesktopMod...1068&TabId=202

Let me save you some time. Overall, 43% in favor of eliminating Age 60, 54% were opposed. IF it became evident that there was going to be a change, 62% wanted to drop opposition/modify ALPAs longstanding opposition. While 36% wanted to oppose it to the bitter end. (Remarkably similar to the FDA numbers---and the FDX results were within a percent of the ALPA numbers I quoted)


And, on the semantics of "allowed". Sorry, if my perception seems callous or indifferent to the turmoil of this excess bid. But, it's just business. For the bottom guy in every window seat, someone Senior to them made a conscious decision not to bid for that slot. Nobody "Forced" that person to take advantage of an early upgrade. The ability to bid QOL is a big benefit to our contract, and I personally hope it is never replaced by an up or out system.

I just don't agree that it's unfair somehow that someone JR is being forced back to a lower paying seat. The people I feel bad for or the PNs who were hired into Anchorage and are going to windup back in the planet.
But, again, it's just business. Nor is it an unprecendented event in the airline industry.

Pre internet bubble, I had buds hired into window seats at the pax carries, get downsized into the FE slot, then furloughed once 9-11 hit after the rapid retirement of the 727
I've got way too many buds on the bubble to being unemployed, again, to agree with folks that we have to shoot DW or ALPO because I'm taking a paycut.

 

This is where many of us have the beef. ALPA, both National and FDX, misrepresented their intent with this question. We heard things like, "We have to be on board the train before it leaves the station" and "the retro thing will never happen" and "People in Congress won't even talk to us about any issue unless we are on board with this Age 60 change". That was all Cr@p! They made the majority of us believe they would minimize the impact of this change if it happened when in fact, they worked to accelerate the age change AND, thanks to DW, included the retro language. THAT is where our beef is.

 

kronan,

You live in a mysterious world. Glad we have people like you willing to take pay cuts. Why don't you just donate it all of your earnings to your beloved DW and ALPA.

 

I agree...

...but just wondering --- how often due you feel the company should run a "bump and flush --- excess of 1" bid to let the folks who voluntarily passed on upgrading for QOL to have a "redo" WITHOUT having to wait for a vacancy bid?

...is this something we should do, say annually, just to remind folks that "seniority is everything!!" ?

 

Blame DW, don't you mean GW? When Bush signed the executive order allowing foreign pilots over 60 to fly in US airspace, age 60 was sunk. If congress or the FAA didn't change it, the courts were going to and everyone knew it. By signing the executive order, GW said the safety argument didn't hold water or he was saying that foreign pilots are healthier and better than US pilots.(sarcasm). Secondly, when did we vote for age 60? There were only polls taken. If we used polls to determine everything, Gore and Kerry would have been Pres. and McCain and Obama would have been out of the race a year ago and the LOA would never have passed(2 out of every 3 guys you see voted for it whether they admit it or not).

 

Now you're just talking crazy talk.

 

Hmmm, how often due I think a "bump and flush" should be done? While I'm not the management game.....I'd say it should be done anytime we significantly shrink the fleet. Or, maybe you think we should keep paying all the DC10 guys until the next vacancy bid (while I'm sure they'd be happy to volunteer to stay in their current seats and get paid not to work....not sure how the rest of us would feel about it)?

My understanding of this excess bid is the company's attempting to avoid multiple future excess bids....kind of like do you want to rip the band-aid off slowly or quickly.

And, other than the DC10 guys of course, there are still going to be people choosing QOL versus the pay.


I would/will be happy to take a paycut if it keeps everybody on property.

I am one of the people who elected to remain in my current seat versus being the caboose on the Capt list....so, I guess from a certain perspective, I "took" a paycut by not going for the $$$.

Again, pilots being displaced from a Capt seat to FO to FE is not unprecedented in the industry. The only difference is for the first time in decades, FedEx is being impacted as well.

The dramatic increase in the price of Oil is having a huge impact on the economy in general, and FedEx in particular. A very smart guy pointed out to me that the only way he thinks the price of Oil will dramatically fall is if a bunch of pilots go into the Oil futures business in a big way

 

As one of the bumpie's...I really can't see the purpose of the second excess bid(except that they are trying to get HKG filled). The whole seniority allignment is crap, because, like stated earlier, guys wanted to bid QOL, and for some of us, new to the company the $$=QOL. Now after age 60 and the DC-10 excess, yeah, the first bid should have been that reallignment, and guys who now see, well, I need to bid to get the max money vice the sked because I may be stuck for a long time...well I think that that is where a lot of folks have heartburn.

It is the company, getting us mad at one another and the union, just in trying to get these HKG slots filled. Now if we address that, we address the TURD of an LOA, and that is why those slots are empty. If the NC would have gotten something reasonable when we had the chance, I really don't think this bump and flush crap would be going on. The company really isn't going to care which FO they pay widebody pay, really the difference between a 4 yr fo and 10yr fo isn't that much...but you have an FDA that isn't filled, and some 68% who voted for it, but won't did it. I voted no, and won't touch either until it is at least cost neutral to take my family over. You can think what you want, but that is how I interpret what is going on. The company is playing poker, they won't show is there cards, but since we are in their house, playing under their rules, we have to show them our hand.

Flame away...

 

Wow, I didn't know "jackass" would make it through the filter! Growing pains with the new server, perhaps?

Pretty harsh post...

 

Your "certain perspective" is off..Did you get used to the pay that you were receiving as a Capt i.e. just bought the new Capt house, or Capt car etc??? And just as you were settling in have your pay cut by 20% or 50% in some cases...I think not, you coulda shoulda, blah blah blah, Just because you are a professional FO and will probably never upgrade doesn't mean the rest of us who chose to upgrade bidding 100% shouldn't be ****ed off because our union has allowed back seat over 60 guys to excess off the 727/DC-10 with no other vacancy postings available compounding this whole mess. You didn't take a pay cut. But a lot of other guys did and your attitude is typical of a guy who is not getting bumped off your current seat...