UPS Threadjack divert (777 Pay= Airbus Pay FDX)
09-28-2008, 08:19 PM
#41
Where's my Mai Tai?
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: fins to the left, fins to the right
Posts: 1,731
Originally Posted by Biggs
Let me add another point. When its time for the next contract and if it looks as though mandatory retirement age to collect the pension is going to move to 65, I bet you will see a mass exodus from those 58 and older. The pension will go, so let it and just give me a bunch more b fund that is mine to manage. It's only a matter of time before some smart guys figures out how to take it. So us young guys vote to payout the pension and or move it to 65 and what the old guys head to the door. If it comes to scope verses keeping the pension as a young guy you had better vote for the scope. Let the pension go, pay me, and make scope everything. With a pension UPS will become less competitive in the global market, so lets use that to our advantage. 25% bfund and 75000 for every year with the company for pension buyout put into an annuity. Money in our pockets, no the Harvard, yale boys, and 600 old guys move on.
Second, our A-fund is now tied to the managers fund. Good luck having that pension so away.
Finally, if you want to look at it from a bean counters perspective, UPS will save money by paying you an A-fund rather than upping the B-fund. What do you think the life expectancy is of a 65 year old freight dog? You get 30 years of service as a cap so 90k/year is the most right now someone would draw under this contract versus upping the B-fund for a pilots career.
09-28-2008, 08:42 PM
#42
Registered User
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Capt: Lav Truck
Posts: 288
Well, since we are talking about contracts, I have a suggestion for the next one. I want a reserve/dont call me list. In other words, I'm on reserve, but they cant call me. Really messes with my life when they call me on reserve. And since I'm probably going to be on reserve the rest of my life, this will be a deal breaker for me. 
And swedish blender, a dude you flew with made four and a quarter? Well, there in lies alot of the problem with future upgrades. At least he did buy all week. I hope that included dinners, dry cleaning, and relaxation therapists too.
And swedish blender, a dude you flew with made four and a quarter? Well, there in lies alot of the problem with future upgrades. At least he did buy all week. I hope that included dinners, dry cleaning, and relaxation therapists too.
09-28-2008, 08:45 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Originally Posted by viktorbravo
Well, since we are talking about contracts, I have a suggestion for the next one. I want a reserve/dont call me list. In other words, I'm on reserve, ut they cant call me. Really messes with my life when they call me on reserve. And since I'm probably going to be on reserve the rest of my life, this will be a deal breaker for me.
09-28-2008, 08:48 PM
#44
Registered User
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: Capt: Lav Truck
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
YES!!! That should be in our contract for sure! A-reserve, B-reserve, and Leave-me-alone reserve!
09-28-2008, 08:53 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Originally Posted by viktorbravo
It should be called RSVDFWM. Reserve dont (you know what) with me.
Last edited by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE; 09-29-2008 at 08:33 AM.
09-29-2008, 03:06 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: 757/767
Posts: 579
Originally Posted by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
Roberto I agree with you (
) but wouldn't you say that your statement depends very much on how many years a pilot has left before the retirement?
In other words if he/she only gets lets say 5 years as a captain than your statement wouldn't be accurate. On the other hand if someone gets 15 years in the left seat than yes, “more money later” would make sense.
What I was saying is that, in my view, now that we've reached the 70% FO to CA pay ratio that ratio should be locked in and not lowered again. We should now negotiate captain pay rates only and adjust the FO pay accordingly to that ratio. Do you agree with that notion?
) but wouldn't you say that your statement depends very much on how many years a pilot has left before the retirement? In other words if he/she only gets lets say 5 years as a captain than your statement wouldn't be accurate. On the other hand if someone gets 15 years in the left seat than yes, “more money later” would make sense.
What I was saying is that, in my view, now that we've reached the 70% FO to CA pay ratio that ratio should be locked in and not lowered again. We should now negotiate captain pay rates only and adjust the FO pay accordingly to that ratio. Do you agree with that notion?
In paragraph 2, my point was that if the pay rate for captain were raised more at the expense of pay for years 2-8, then all boats (including FO and FE) would be better off after year 8. That is because under the old contract the FO percentage after year 8 was already up there. I think it was 67%. So 67% of a higher captain pay could have been better than 70% of a lower captain pay. If one spent a lot of time as an FO under the old contract (more than 8 years), there wasn't a pay problem, even if you never upgraded to captain.
09-29-2008, 04:29 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 266
Originally Posted by Biggs
Let me add another point. When its time for the next contract and if it looks as though mandatory retirement age to collect the pension is going to move to 65, I bet you will see a mass exodus from those 58 and older. The pension will go, so let it and just give me a bunch more b fund that is mine to manage. It's only a matter of time before some smart guys figures out how to take it. So us young guys vote to payout the pension and or move it to 65 and what the old guys head to the door. If it comes to scope verses keeping the pension as a young guy you had better vote for the scope. Let the pension go, pay me, and make scope everything. With a pension UPS will become less competitive in the global market, so lets use that to our advantage. 25% bfund and 75000 for every year with the company for pension buyout put into an annuity. Money in our pockets, no the Harvard, yale boys, and 600 old guys move on.
"If your plan specifies age 60 for retirement and you have vested you have a right to retire at age 60. In a future contract the Company cannot ask for and the Union cannot agree to abrogate that right by agreeing to increase the normal retirement age for the years of service you have accrued. They could increase the normal retirement age for those benefits that will be earned in the future, but not for those that have already vested."
The article then goes on to say that even if there were an increase in future benefits, two actuarial tables would have to be kept and that it would be an extreme hassle to do so for the bean counters.
B2P
09-29-2008, 05:27 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Posts: 126
Originally Posted by Swedish Blender
First, I hope you realize you are capped between B-fund and 401k at about 45,000. Upping your B-fund will limit your 401K contributions when you make captain. I fly with captains who easily hit the limit. One guy was going to make +/- 425k. Don't ask but at least he bought the entire week.
09-29-2008, 06:13 AM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Leftof longitudinal
Posts: 1,899
Originally Posted by Swedish Blender
First, I hope you realize you are capped between B-fund and 401k at about 45,000. Upping your B-fund will limit your 401K contributions when you make captain. I fly with captains who easily hit the limit. One guy was going to make +/- 425k. Don't ask but at least he bought the entire week.
Second, our A-fund is now tied to the managers fund. Good luck having that pension so away.
Finally, if you want to look at it from a bean counters perspective, UPS will save money by paying you an A-fund rather than upping the B-fund. What do you think the life expectancy is of a 65 year old freight dog? You get 30 years of service as a cap so 90k/year is the most right now someone would draw under this contract versus upping the B-fund for a pilots career.
Second, our A-fund is now tied to the managers fund. Good luck having that pension so away.
Finally, if you want to look at it from a bean counters perspective, UPS will save money by paying you an A-fund rather than upping the B-fund. What do you think the life expectancy is of a 65 year old freight dog? You get 30 years of service as a cap so 90k/year is the most right now someone would draw under this contract versus upping the B-fund for a pilots career.
Also, these Capts who are making nearly twice what the majority of Capts are making are the ones that hurt us all (yep, F/O's too) in negotiations. That 425-500 K Capts. are the only one who make the news. <ng> and are called "pilots at UPS make $500K" Doggone right the Capt should buy. Would only drink premium liquor too <g>
Originally Posted by Roberto
Yes to paragraph 1 and 3.
In paragraph 2, my point was that if the pay rate for captain were raised more at the expense of pay for years 2-8, then all boats (including FO and FE) would be better off after year 8. That is because under the old contract the FO percentage after year 8 was already up there. I think it was 67%. So 67% of a higher captain pay could have been better than 70% of a lower captain pay. If one spent a lot of time as an FO under the old contract (more than 8 years), there wasn't a pay problem, even if you never upgraded to captain.
In paragraph 2, my point was that if the pay rate for captain were raised more at the expense of pay for years 2-8, then all boats (including FO and FE) would be better off after year 8. That is because under the old contract the FO percentage after year 8 was already up there. I think it was 67%. So 67% of a higher captain pay could have been better than 70% of a lower captain pay. If one spent a lot of time as an FO under the old contract (more than 8 years), there wasn't a pay problem, even if you never upgraded to captain.
Originally Posted by b2pilot186
The article then goes on to say that even if there were an increase in future benefits, two actuarial tables would have to be kept and that it would be an extreme hassle to do so for the bean counters.
B2P
Originally Posted by Charlie Murphy
You say this as if it's a bad thing. I would rather put more of their money into the 45,000 and less of mine.
Sure, but this is not a Capt vs F/O issue. Even more senior F/O's hit the limit. Thus, everyone of us frustrated at the IRS limits. Be careful on how you consider this topic.
09-29-2008, 07:05 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 266
[QUOTE=SaltyDog;470290]UPS will gladly maintain two, three, four tables or more tables, lists, etc. This is fact. They will also try to divide Capt vs F/O, Senior vs junior, etc.
QUOTE]
I don't know if they would gladly do it or if it really is a rock-solid fact. They seem to be penny pinchers even in the best of times and it would cost more to manage two or more different benefit schedules. Regardless, my point was that because of ERISA, the current A plan cannot just be done away with by the company or the union arbitrarily, even with the flying age increase to 65. I do agree that a division within the ranks of pilots benefits the company...but I don't think they'll have to try too hard to do that themselves...unfortunately, our pilot group seems to do that fairly well all by itself sometimes.
B2P
QUOTE]
I don't know if they would gladly do it or if it really is a rock-solid fact. They seem to be penny pinchers even in the best of times and it would cost more to manage two or more different benefit schedules. Regardless, my point was that because of ERISA, the current A plan cannot just be done away with by the company or the union arbitrarily, even with the flying age increase to 65. I do agree that a division within the ranks of pilots benefits the company...but I don't think they'll have to try too hard to do that themselves...unfortunately, our pilot group seems to do that fairly well all by itself sometimes.
B2P
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