FDX - MEC Negotiating Chairman
10-18-2008, 04:20 AM
#13
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Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
Originally Posted by JohnnyViper
Sounds like a good time to start looking into the professional negotiators again. If the mustached crew think it's so important to have a pilot's input at the table, have one sitting next to the guys that know what they are doing. It makes me giggle every time I think that we think a pilot can outwit the FedEx lawyers.
10-18-2008, 05:49 AM
#14
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,601
Originally Posted by JohnnyViper
Sounds like a good time to start looking into the professional negotiators again. If the mustached crew think it's so important to have a pilot's input at the table, have one sitting next to the guys that know what they are doing. It makes me giggle every time I think that we think a pilot can outwit the FedEx lawyers.
Assuredly, if we put a pro in charge of negotiation, some of the same malcontents will make the argument that we are not in control of our (negotiating) destiny. I agree.
10-18-2008, 07:23 AM
#16
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Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: AERO
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by dckozak
Using an analogy you can relate to; do you want your NC to be the captain or the FO?? A professional negotiator in the "left seat" is against the grain of what most pilots, and union pilots in particular, want or expect from their fellow (elected) leadership.
Assuredly, if we put a pro in charge of negotiation, some of the same malcontents will make the argument that we are not in control of our (negotiating) destiny. I agree.
Assuredly, if we put a pro in charge of negotiation, some of the same malcontents will make the argument that we are not in control of our (negotiating) destiny. I agree.
Witness the false logic that will always keep us outclassed at the negotiating table.
10-18-2008, 07:42 AM
#17
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Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 777 Capt
Posts: 403
Originally Posted by dckozak
Using an analogy you can relate to; do you want your NC to be the captain or the FO?? A professional negotiator in the "left seat" is against the grain of what most pilots, and union pilots in particular, want or expect from their fellow (elected) leadership.
Assuredly, if we put a pro in charge of negotiation, some of the same malcontents will make the argument that we are not in control of our (negotiating) destiny. I agree.
Assuredly, if we put a pro in charge of negotiation, some of the same malcontents will make the argument that we are not in control of our (negotiating) destiny. I agree.
Put a pro on the point and have the pilots on the negotiating committee advise him.
10-18-2008, 07:43 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Hey! Maybe those UPS guys could ask their "insider"(the one that knows all about our negotiations) what happened to our Neg. Chair.
My guess is that the MEC told him to ask for $209/hr for the 777, and he quit.
My guess is that the MEC told him to ask for $209/hr for the 777, and he quit.
10-18-2008, 07:56 AM
#19
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Originally Posted by MaydayMark
I like FE but let's face it, he hasn't had much success lately. Maybe he's just "throwing in the towel"? Examples?
1. substandard LOA ... HKG still isn't filled (OK that was BC).
2. Total failure with 777 pay (should have been rolled into LOA when we had at least some negotiating capital)
3. Contract 2010? Haven't heard anything good yet? Not even a union poll so that they know what the membership wants and they can "do the right thing" (regardless of the poll results!*?)
I'm not sure that with our weak (at best) support that anyone could have done much better? Maybe his and DW's replacements will have better luck? Sure hope so ...
1. substandard LOA ... HKG still isn't filled (OK that was BC).
2. Total failure with 777 pay (should have been rolled into LOA when we had at least some negotiating capital)
3. Contract 2010? Haven't heard anything good yet? Not even a union poll so that they know what the membership wants and they can "do the right thing" (regardless of the poll results!*?)
I'm not sure that with our weak (at best) support that anyone could have done much better? Maybe his and DW's replacements will have better luck? Sure hope so ...
No success? The opposite is true my friend. FE rejected an unacceptable 777 offer. Just like we should have rejected an unacceptable FDA LOA, which I believe FE would have done IF HE WAS IN THE POSITION AT THE TIME. Roll 777 pay rates into the FDA LOA? So you want all the 777 pilots to be based in HKG? What?!? If that was not your intent then I have to break it to you that there was no way to tie the two together.
Haven't heard anything good about 2010? Just like a pilot to try to focus on too many things all at once. Do you really think much is done this far out? You should know all the tough negotiations do not. If you had talked with FE you would have found out he didn't want our retirement changed like many theorize it "has to". That wasn't good enough news for you? How about noticing our NC WAS a former SIG member. If you don't bid in the top 20%, that should have been good news for you too.
You are hoping for better, eh? Good luck with that....
Last edited by Gunter; 10-18-2008 at 08:04 AM.
10-18-2008, 07:59 AM
#20
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Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: leaning to the left
Posts: 4,184
Originally Posted by hyperone
Yep, that's why the Teamsters and the Steelworkers always have one of their own as their chief negotiator! Sorry, but ALPA's arrogance in thinking they can train a pilot in a few months to successfully negotiate with a labor lawyer, who's whole professional life has been devoted to labor law and negotiation, doesn't make me giggle, it makes me very sad and angry.
Put a pro on the point and have the pilots on the negotiating committee advise him.
Put a pro on the point and have the pilots on the negotiating committee advise him.
UAL and DAL used the same technique we've been using to get their $320/hr contracts, 8 years ago. They were using "pilot negotiators" with pros at their sides. So what's the difference between them and us? The pilot groups.
They talk the talk and carried a big stick. We talk the talk and actively subvert our own negotiations with our personal greed. Who'd be afraid of us?
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