FDX - MEC Negotiating Chairman
10-18-2008, 08:53 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: B-777
Posts: 455
Originally Posted by Busboy
It's not the negotiator...It's what's behind the negotiator!! Us!!
UAL and DAL used the same technique we've been using to get their $320/hr contracts, 8 years ago. They were using "pilot negotiators" with pros at their sides. So what's the difference between them and us? The pilot groups.
They talk the talk and carried a big stick. We talk the talk and actively subvert our own negotiations with our personal greed. Who'd be afraid of us?
UAL and DAL used the same technique we've been using to get their $320/hr contracts, 8 years ago. They were using "pilot negotiators" with pros at their sides. So what's the difference between them and us? The pilot groups.
They talk the talk and carried a big stick. We talk the talk and actively subvert our own negotiations with our personal greed. Who'd be afraid of us?
10-18-2008, 09:26 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,409
We reinvent the wheel every four years with new guys negotiating for us. God bless them for stepping up to the plate but they are out-gunned. Have a couple pilots in the mix for oversight, and pay DM more money so he will work for us full time instead of the company! I would like to know how much is in our proverbial "war chest" right now or have we been supporting the rest of ALPA for the last several years?
Last edited by FR8Hauler; 10-18-2008 at 09:34 AM.
10-18-2008, 10:54 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 4,304
Gunter,
Your wife obviously forgot to give you your medication this morning. I'm glad I was able to give you ammo for your daily rant.
LOA relationship? The company REALLY wanted that LOA. I'm not sure how they were able to brainwash the MEC into the hard sell they gave us to pass it. No, FE wasn't involved then but he is now. The company still hasn't come close to getting enough folk to bid it and FE is in a position to let them know what it might take. So back to your original question, if the company REALLY wanted the LOA bad, we should have rolled something we wanted really bad, 777 pay, in as a quid pro quo (the concept isn't that hard, you should be able to get it). And despite you assuring me that there was no way to tie 777 pay to the LOA, I say that's exatly how negotiations work! You want something ... we want something
I'm glad FE told the company we were unhappy with their 777 proposal, I wish we had told them that MUCH more often but let's face it, the company won't even talk about it now (hows that for "Successful Negotiating 101"?) and figures that they'll take their chances with a neutral? In other words, they think they have a better argument than our union negotiators AND THEY ARE WILLING TO BET ON IT! How's that make you feel about how our NC is doing?
And if you really think this pilot is trying to tie too many things together (and thus getting confused?), if you really think that then I'm sure I don't want your single issue brain the the NC but thanks for volunteering.
Regards,
Mark
PS ... I'm gled our NC has at least one fan. They work very hard and deserve it.
Your wife obviously forgot to give you your medication this morning. I'm glad I was able to give you ammo for your daily rant.
Originally Posted by Gunter
If the LOA wasn't FE's fault, why bring it up?
Originally Posted by Gunter
FE rejected an unacceptable 777 offer. Just like we should have rejected an unacceptable FDA LOA, which I believe FE would have done IF HE WAS IN THE POSITION AT THE TIME. Roll 777 pay rates into the FDA LOA? So you want all the 777 pilots to be based in HKG? What?!? If that was not your intent then I have to break it to you that there was no way to tie the two together.
And if you really think this pilot is trying to tie too many things together (and thus getting confused?), if you really think that then I'm sure I don't want your single issue brain the the NC but thanks for volunteering.
Regards,
Mark
PS ... I'm gled our NC has at least one fan. They work very hard and deserve it.
10-18-2008, 11:04 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 425
1. Get rid of current philosophy and management at FDX MEC, adopt a "get tough" attitude with FDX 2. No Union Leaders allowed to become Company Managers within 3 years after serving for the Union 3. Professional Negotiators for entire negotiations, with Pilot oversight and timely crewforce updates 4. Flush out the moles, get rid of the back stabbers and *****s trying to undermine the good of this pilot group 5. Pilot Group get fired up and concerned for the good of the whole, not the few 6. STOP THE CRAP, GIVE US THE TRUTH and DIGNITY WE DESERVE as PROFESSIONAL PILOTS
10-18-2008, 11:27 AM
#27
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
Originally Posted by Underdog
Unless there are some personal reasons, his resignation certainly doesn't emanate warm fuzzies. I'm guessing FE won't say anything negative of the MEC , for fear of the appearance of a rift from within. In the meantime...pass the koolaid.
Just another proponent of hysteria. Remember...."It'll go senior." Standing by for posting 08-XX.
Just another proponent of hysteria. Remember...."It'll go senior." Standing by for posting 08-XX.
10-18-2008, 11:30 AM
#28
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
Originally Posted by hyperone
Yep, that's why the Teamsters and the Steelworkers always have one of their own as their chief negotiator! Sorry, but ALPA's arrogance in thinking they can train a pilot in a few months to successfully negotiate with a labor lawyer, who's whole professional life has been devoted to labor law and negotiation, doesn't make me giggle, it makes me very sad and angry.
Put a pro on the point and have the pilots on the negotiating committee advise him.
Put a pro on the point and have the pilots on the negotiating committee advise him.
10-18-2008, 11:33 AM
#29
"blue collar thug"!
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: A proponent of...
Posts: 1,614
Originally Posted by Busboy
It's not the negotiator...It's what's behind the negotiator!! Us!!
UAL and DAL used the same technique we've been using to get their $320/hr contracts, 8 years ago. They were using "pilot negotiators" with pros at their sides. So what's the difference between them and us? The pilot groups.
They talk the talk and carried a big stick. We talk the talk and actively subvert our own negotiations with our personal greed. Who'd be afraid of us?
UAL and DAL used the same technique we've been using to get their $320/hr contracts, 8 years ago. They were using "pilot negotiators" with pros at their sides. So what's the difference between them and us? The pilot groups.
They talk the talk and carried a big stick. We talk the talk and actively subvert our own negotiations with our personal greed. Who'd be afraid of us?
10-18-2008, 12:48 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Originally Posted by MaydayMark
In other words, they think they have a better argument than our union negotiators AND THEY ARE WILLING TO BET ON IT! How's that make you feel about how our NC is doing?
If management says they won't talk about 2 different issues in the same negotiation then they will not. Sorry you have trouble understanding that. Your idea would have resulted in a stalemate much earlier.
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