JustUnderPar

One thing about this whole, depressing thread, that no one has mentioned. If a furlough comes, BIG IF, the company could offer early retirements to lots of these guys that are over say 62?? Thoughts?

ERJ Jay

Why would they do that, after all the time and money they spent to train them back to the front seat?

McBoeingBus

Forget the company, why would the over 60 guys retire now? There is no retirement penalty if you stay until 60. The CAs are pushing 300K per year and they are adding to their retirement A and B Funds. The advantage with the over 60 guys hanging around is they are very senior for the most part and therefore can be fairly non-productive, if they choose. I suspect there will be a few to retire if a furlough is announced, but nothing will happen until then.

MBB

JustUnderPar

I hear you

The economy has changed a little since then is the obvious answer. Since they spent all this money it would make even more sense...

SaltyDog

Remember the company followed the contract after the age 60 issue became law. Am sure UPS did not like the expense, but UPS followed the contract and the law. Certainly, it was expensive and painful for almost all regarding seat movements.
Don't see early retirements offered. Why? no real economic benefit to UPS.
Since we had 62 year old folks moving to the front, we will see retirements starting to increase again in 2011 and pick up from there until the line of the retirements pick up by end of 2012 to what was projected in 2008.
Meanwhile, still project that pilots will not be furloughed. Long term business plan doesn't allow cutting back on airplanes flying. UPS has done a superb job of optimizing routes and planes to meet delivery/sort requirements. That is why they have certain flights tagged as critical (ONT-SDF, MSP-PHL, etc) see the bid package. Upsizing the airplane to an MD-11 doesn't change the time constraints between sorts. Certainly can get onesy and twosies, regardless of the business environment, UPS is working to maximize profit. This does not allow UPS a wholesale ability to park jets unless UPS wants to concede it's most profitable and core business. Not likely, Fedex will grab the market we give up.
Can furloughs occur, certainly, however, I don't see armegeddon on the horizon yet.
Even though I am 'safe' from furlough, I am still subject to losing a medical and thus plan my financial life accordingly for all contingencies. (Accidents, furloughes, disability, etc)

JustUnderPar

I agree with you.

But..regarding this last part. The people that will be furloughed are not the people, like yourself, that has been here for 10+ years making good money. If you look at the 'new hire' page you will see that most have come from all walks of life. Everyone has not been as fortune as you and not able to "plan their financial life accordingly" coming off probation.

It will be especially hard for those that put their trust in the company and union by taking a move to ANC. If a furlough happens I guess we can get in line for a job as a policeman. Then we can keep F-street clear of thugs for everyone

Sideshow Bob

No way of avoiding the downsides of being junior, that's for sure. As the prayer goes..."Lord grant me the serenity to accept the thaings I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to hide the bodies of those I had to kill because they ****ed me off..." or something like that

As for what those of us with all this "fortune" can do, absolutely accept no J/A or picking up opentime (as well as not trading up in credit hours, and maximizing conflict drops) as well as outing those who do is about the limit from day to day.

Along with that, I think we (the membership) should resolve now to cover every penny of medical insurance cost for furloughess in the event of the unthinkable.

SaltyDog

Understand, planning started long before I arrived here. Left the military during a period of furloughs at the majors, no hiring (even at most commuters) and took a 75% pay cut the first year (and a 55% the second). I went to a commuter that paid 13K per year and was in bankruptcy. (1993 to 1996). Did 3 years and my high end was just under 16K my third full year. Came to UPS and doubled my airline pay as a probationary crewmember. While at the commuter I purchased a modest home for my family and put 20% down. My planning started in the years (yes years) prior to leaving active service. I drive older cars, have an F/O house, no toys. The original wife <g> with no modifications and am very content. Know all cannot do so, but most of us can.
Absolutely agree with Sideshow that your IPA would pick up the medical coverage of any crews furloughed. Also, have stated, that you would likely be amazed at the unity demonstrated by the IPA should armageddon happen. We have done this several times amidst family squabbles before. (1988, teamsters strike, announced furlough of the 100 and then made whole our deceased IPA who died during negotiations, we also contributed significantly to one of our IPA probationary crewmembers struck with cancer) Many, many generous souls among us who will contribute to minimize your concerns. OT and JA are just part of the mix.
BTW, Sideshow and I witnessed this leadership from from the largely over 60 crowd

FlightPhoenix

Hay look on the bright side. If you get furloughed from UPS send your resumes to Astar/ABX. You may then still get a chance to fly DHL freight.

Shaggy1970

Not Funny!