I talked to a relatively senior B727 Captain Flex who did not realize that 38 B727 captains lost their seats on Posting 8-02 last June. As of today only one has been trained. That number includes 4 WB Flex instructors on passover and 34 Active captains. This was the Over-60 bid. The unforseen factor was the number of senior first officers that bid over to the left seat. This relatively small, obscure number of demoted captains seems to be a thorn in the side of the union, especially the dozen or so that bid HKG captain. I have heard the the union line and I believe strongly in the principle -- "Seniority has its priveledges." Having said that, here is the problem:
If you are involuntarily excessed to a lower paying seat you will not be trained in reverse seniority order. Choose your seat carefully.

 

What does your last 2 sentences mean? Expound please.

 

CBA Sect. 24.D.3.a

3.Training Due To Excess
Pilots involuntarily excessed from a crew status shall be scheduled for training in reverse seniority order. Application of this paragraph shall not trigger passover pay for the involuntarily excessed pilots.

There was a semblance of reverse-seniority downgrade training in the intitial Training Letters after the close of Posting 8-02 last summer. Downgraded captains went to 11FA, 11FM, 30FM, 57FM, and 72FM. Each seat was assigned by reverse seniority but the overall seniority was ignored. For example, the ANC downgrade was one of the most senior and the first one to lose his seat. He should have retained his captain seat the longest. After the 777 bid, the whole process was abrogated. In a savvy move, 18 of the initial 38 bid to the right seat of the 777. Their initial training dates were cancelled and they were assigned 777 training dates in seniority (not reverse) order with the most junior retaining his B727 captain seat until the summer of 2010. I was not one of the smart ones. I towed the union line and did not bid the 777. After some thought, I realized that bidding the 777 may actually help some junior seat-holders on the next excess bid. It could be a win-win scenario. It depends on which seats end up with an excess of 1 and which seats are fattened up.
Restated:
If you are involuntarily excessed on the next bid and you want to remain in your current seat for the longest possible time, look carefully at the training letters and ask about the future training tempo by seat. Your downgrade training will not be scheduled by overall reverse seniority. The union leadership is being evasive on this whole issue.
You can decide if the company is violating this section of the CBA. To me, it's a no-brainer. Hope this helps.

 

Thanks a lot

 

31Hz,


Does the training for those involuntarily excessed occur in reverse seniority only in regards to the specific aircraft? So if ANC MD11F/O training was slated prior to any other a/c then that would explain why that Capt was sent prior to the others?

The group that re-bid the 777 are then removed from the involuntary excess bid list and would appropriately go to training by seniority I believe.

 

3. Training Due To Excess
Pilots involuntarily excessed from a crew status shall be scheduled for training in reverse seniority order. Application of this paragraph shall not trigger passover pay for the involuntarily excessed pilots.

This is all the CBA says.
Seat specific is not in there.
The most senior trained 20+ months before the most junior is scheduled.
He is the only one trained so far.
No provision for intervening bids.
No passover pay.
Just info for future bidding.

 

Thanks a lot for the info.