Amerijet getting 767
03-08-2009, 09:37 PM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 196
Originally Posted by jetgo166
Guys,
I have personally fought Amerijet as the union steward, union negotiator, union newletter committee, and union grievance committee - all on my own for two of the four years after voting for IBT representation. Amerijet pilots are represented by Local 769 in Orlando Florida, which also has an office in Miami. The business agent for the pilot group was informed immediately of the business deal and passed word of it to the relevant people at IBT. We have been trying to get our first contract from AJT for the past four and a half years. We have been in mediation since 2005. The union was voted into AJT in 2004, with almost a 90% affirmative vote.
In the years since, AJT has been on a vicious campaign to scuttle all efforts to get a FIRST contract. The top four "troublemakers" were systematically harassed, degraded, and forced into countless "counselling sessions" with management. Sometimes the were suspended or had wages taken out of their paycheck. AJT knew exactly where to draw the line for suspensions, since their crew handbook was considered status quo. It was all orchestrated by Fisher Phillips, an anti-union firm out of Atlanta. There was only so much that the union men could take, and being the professional aviators that they were, they had many options to go elsewhere, and took them. The last one to go was myself, and I personally raised the ante with that company. I was slandered, abused, threatened, ripped-off, suspended (with pay since I went over their four day limit because I would not grovel for my job back - idiots). In the midst of this, I personally flyered cars, held meetings, and harangued pilots on the phone. I had a couple of good men on the inside, who passed information as they were considered "company men", and was able to counter some of Amerijet's strategies. I offered my services to any one of the pilots who grieved an issue. In the end, I had enough of their nonsense and moved on to another airline. As soon as I left, Amerijet instituted a decertification campaign, using a couple of their captains (one of whom is still there) and had a bunch of new-hires send enough votes to trigger an election. This election cost the union seven months of negotiations. I went again and had meetings and flyered cars. The IBT won by a 3:1 margin. Now AJT must negotiate and sign a contract. They are boxed in by their own arrogance.
Do I feel for the pilots at AJT in having the ABX 767's? Absolutely not. I was furloughed a few months ago, and am slowly sinking, like many other people in this business. I begged and pleaded with this current group of (mostly captains) pilots to stand up and show some professional conduct, have a backbone for once, and do what is right. Many of them probably really hate me, most of them are afraid. Afraid of what? Losing their jobs? Guys, there are other things to do in life, no one is putting a gun to your head. One day you are going to watch the plane being loaded, and realize the pallet pushers make more than you. If you are afraid to be a professional, then you have no business in aviation. As for the current group of "professionals" at AJT, they have had one check airman fail a PC check, and another decide to make a grass taxiiway in Dominica in the last six months. God help us all.
In the end, Red Baron is absolutely on the money. For some of those guys, I would not acknowledge them, be friendly to them, or even brake if they were crossing the road. Oh, and some of them know this from their time as picket crossers at Eastern Airlines. 'Nuff said, and if anyone disagrees with me about AJT, then they don't know what they are talking about.
I have personally fought Amerijet as the union steward, union negotiator, union newletter committee, and union grievance committee - all on my own for two of the four years after voting for IBT representation. Amerijet pilots are represented by Local 769 in Orlando Florida, which also has an office in Miami. The business agent for the pilot group was informed immediately of the business deal and passed word of it to the relevant people at IBT. We have been trying to get our first contract from AJT for the past four and a half years. We have been in mediation since 2005. The union was voted into AJT in 2004, with almost a 90% affirmative vote.
In the years since, AJT has been on a vicious campaign to scuttle all efforts to get a FIRST contract. The top four "troublemakers" were systematically harassed, degraded, and forced into countless "counselling sessions" with management. Sometimes the were suspended or had wages taken out of their paycheck. AJT knew exactly where to draw the line for suspensions, since their crew handbook was considered status quo. It was all orchestrated by Fisher Phillips, an anti-union firm out of Atlanta. There was only so much that the union men could take, and being the professional aviators that they were, they had many options to go elsewhere, and took them. The last one to go was myself, and I personally raised the ante with that company. I was slandered, abused, threatened, ripped-off, suspended (with pay since I went over their four day limit because I would not grovel for my job back - idiots). In the midst of this, I personally flyered cars, held meetings, and harangued pilots on the phone. I had a couple of good men on the inside, who passed information as they were considered "company men", and was able to counter some of Amerijet's strategies. I offered my services to any one of the pilots who grieved an issue. In the end, I had enough of their nonsense and moved on to another airline. As soon as I left, Amerijet instituted a decertification campaign, using a couple of their captains (one of whom is still there) and had a bunch of new-hires send enough votes to trigger an election. This election cost the union seven months of negotiations. I went again and had meetings and flyered cars. The IBT won by a 3:1 margin. Now AJT must negotiate and sign a contract. They are boxed in by their own arrogance.
Do I feel for the pilots at AJT in having the ABX 767's? Absolutely not. I was furloughed a few months ago, and am slowly sinking, like many other people in this business. I begged and pleaded with this current group of (mostly captains) pilots to stand up and show some professional conduct, have a backbone for once, and do what is right. Many of them probably really hate me, most of them are afraid. Afraid of what? Losing their jobs? Guys, there are other things to do in life, no one is putting a gun to your head. One day you are going to watch the plane being loaded, and realize the pallet pushers make more than you. If you are afraid to be a professional, then you have no business in aviation. As for the current group of "professionals" at AJT, they have had one check airman fail a PC check, and another decide to make a grass taxiiway in Dominica in the last six months. God help us all.
In the end, Red Baron is absolutely on the money. For some of those guys, I would not acknowledge them, be friendly to them, or even brake if they were crossing the road. Oh, and some of them know this from their time as picket crossers at Eastern Airlines. 'Nuff said, and if anyone disagrees with me about AJT, then they don't know what they are talking about.
This is from a former Amerijet pilot. A spade is a spade. Enjoy the bottom of the barrel!
Red
03-09-2009, 08:50 AM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: pic
Posts: 141
I agree with RCflyer, most ajt pilots were willing to put up a fight with the company. then abx came to fly ajt routes and amerijet pilots lost their jobs so much for a contract. Red Baron am sure you raised your voice for your fellow pilots then righttt?????? I don't think so, but now you're on the other side you can feel the pain ajt pilots felt. I hate to see a decent operator like abx go and a proffesional pilot group jobless, and I must say am not a fan of amerijet I know under what conditions pilots work there and it sickens me. however facts are facts and the guys at ajt have their side of the story, I feel your pain but I believe you are blaming your problems on the wrong group.
Originally Posted by RCflyer
Maybe you should have thought of that when you started flying OUR routes with YOUR airplanes! As a result, our management furloughed pilots that were once required to be at work to fly those routes.
What union? What union???? The same union that you have! The Teamsters. And what does a fellow teamster do? Fly the other teamsters routes! Thanks buddy. Maybe we would have had a little more leverage to get a decent contract if YOUR boys wouldn't have been willing to sell our bosses a bigger jet for lower operating costs. Now here we sit without a contract.
It's the same thing you did to us. See above. We didn't accept ANY contract yet. Our management walked from the table when ABX pilots came down to fly our Teamster routes. They didn't need us anymore.
Thanks for flying our routes! Oh, I see you know who our union is. Thanks Teamster!
= FACTS
Red Baron next time tell the complete story so others not familiar with the issue can understand. Thanks
Originally Posted by RCflyer
Maybe you should have thought of that when you started flying OUR routes with YOUR airplanes! As a result, our management furloughed pilots that were once required to be at work to fly those routes.
What union? What union???? The same union that you have! The Teamsters. And what does a fellow teamster do? Fly the other teamsters routes! Thanks buddy. Maybe we would have had a little more leverage to get a decent contract if YOUR boys wouldn't have been willing to sell our bosses a bigger jet for lower operating costs. Now here we sit without a contract.
It's the same thing you did to us. See above. We didn't accept ANY contract yet. Our management walked from the table when ABX pilots came down to fly our Teamster routes. They didn't need us anymore.
Thanks for flying our routes! Oh, I see you know who our union is. Thanks Teamster!
= FACTS
Red Baron next time tell the complete story so others not familiar with the issue can understand. Thanks
03-09-2009, 12:52 PM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 196
Capto,
ABX pilots did not create the mess at Amerijet. The AMJ pilot group did it all by themselves. Just ask jetgo166. In this industry If you aren't willing to fight you get squashed. It's no secret.
Red
ABX pilots did not create the mess at Amerijet. The AMJ pilot group did it all by themselves. Just ask jetgo166. In this industry If you aren't willing to fight you get squashed. It's no secret.
Red
03-09-2009, 01:52 PM
#74
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 37
Originally Posted by Red Baron
RCflyer,
This is from a former Amerijet pilot. A spade is a spade. Enjoy the bottom of the barrel!
Red
This is from a former Amerijet pilot. A spade is a spade. Enjoy the bottom of the barrel!
Red
This gentleman (jetgo166), who I have met but never worked with, did an excellent job promoting the union and addressing issues between employees and management. He should be honored for that. However, the insight you have gained from his post is lacking in that he seeks to gain all the credit for the union movement at Amerijet. Many of us have fought hard for our rights, gone to the meetings, raised support between employees, and put it right in the face of the scabs. We deserve some credit too, in the form of a contract, Teamster support, and less slander from our Teamster brothers.
He is absolutely correct when he talks about the harassment of the pilots by management. Just as he said, there is only so much a man can take. And, he himself moved on and subsequently "gave up" as a result of his treatment by management. Compared to what we have had happen here, union negotiations at other operators are cake. My last operator was a union busting company, and that was like living in Heaven compared to this. Red Baron, you have no understanding of what is going on here, and I am disappointing in your lack of support for your fellow Teamsters.
His statement about the new hires starting a movement to vote out the union is completely incorrect. The movement was lead by an Eastern scab Captain who is in bed with the owner. The new hires all got together and voted FOR the union and stood behind the other employees. Only one or two new hire(s) voted for the "in house" union that was proposed. If it weren't for all the legal proceedings going on now created by F&H, we would have a contract. The loss of time due to the recertification vote was minimal compared to the other BS going on from the lawyers and management.
What does jetgo want us to do? Perform an illegal work action? It is all up to the lawyers now. As far as being professional is concerned, an illegal work action is far from it. I would not expect or wish that any of my pilots would do that. Ever. His opinion on whether we deserve the 767's is void as he does not work there anymore. He seems that he would rather us dead under his car anyay. Thanks a lot, bother!
How can a man who gave up and left the company blame everyone else for Amerijet pilots not getting a contract? He left Amerijet and left us. Now you want to use his post as a rebuttal about your pilots stealing our flying!? If you are a man who can stand behind his word, then give me a rebuttal worth my time. Otherwise, all of you previous statements on this thread are VOID.
Originally Posted by Red Baron
ABX pilots did not create the mess at Amerijet. The AMJ pilot group did it all by themselves. Just ask jetgo166. In this industry If you aren't willing to fight you get squashed. It's no secret.
You should have stood up for yourself a bit more.
Good day!
03-09-2009, 02:55 PM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 196
RCFlyer,
You have clearly demonstrated the reason why I joined this thread. Once again you have shown us that bottom of the barrel, its everyone else's fault, attitude. Enjoy life at the bottom! You deserve it!
Red
You have clearly demonstrated the reason why I joined this thread. Once again you have shown us that bottom of the barrel, its everyone else's fault, attitude. Enjoy life at the bottom! You deserve it!
Red
03-09-2009, 03:06 PM
#76
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 37
Originally Posted by Red Baron
RCFlyer,
You have clearly demonstrated the reason why I joined this thread. Once again you have shown us that bottom of the barrel, its everyone else's fault, attitude. Enjoy life at the bottom! You deserve it!
Red
You have clearly demonstrated the reason why I joined this thread. Once again you have shown us that bottom of the barrel, its everyone else's fault, attitude. Enjoy life at the bottom! You deserve it!
Red
I guess you missed quite a bit of your own posts on this thread. Sorry you couldn't be here for your own ignorance.
You are clearly the pot who is calling the kettle black.
03-09-2009, 03:29 PM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,948
Mutual flamebait and bashing. Thread closed.
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