Pondering the purpose of Posting 9-01
#11
All they have to say is they are trying to not furlough more and can keep doing what they are doing. Furloughing does not stop the BLG reduction. They can furlough 300 and say if they bring the BLGs up they'd have to furlough 100 more. It is about $$ I know. But, there is no snap back when they furlough.
#12
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They can get an excess award, be waiting for training then, wham, furlough from ANC. Never say Never.
#13
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It's hard to say what would happen one way or the other R1200 since we don't know the outcome of the grievance on 4.A.2.b. Win, lose or settlement, I expect that like many of the other little used contract sections of late (training cancellation, excess bid eligibility, FDA passover pay, etc) that there will ultimately be some sort of clarification on how that section is to be used including boundaries.
#14
If they furlough the nuggets in place right now... and all of those junior to them as per the CBA... How are they going to fill/fly the 27FO and 27SO trips?
I think there has to be a great deal of training before the furloughs happen.
I think there has to be a great deal of training before the furloughs happen.
#15
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The way I read it in the CBA and the Settlement Agreement, there is no excess unless they declare an excess. The rights and priveledges of any excessed pilot can't be restricted unless it is spelled out in the CBA. The CBA restricts an excessed pilot from being awarded an FDA seat if the FDA is full. They had to find a way to unrestrict HKG. Posting 9-01 does exactly that. There is no mention of numbers in the language. The only thing that matters is whether the FDA is full or has a vacancy.
#16
It may not look like this with this excess, but you can bet the next one or two excess bids will strive to make this happen.
#17
And remember, they could furlough today, right now and SAVE having to buy the nuggets houses and pay move packages and train them and on, and on.....just furlough the nuggets where they are, right? They won't do that because they may lose the flexible BLG bull$H1T they are shoving down our throats.
If we are waiting for the upper echelon of the seniority list to stand strong on this, it ain't gonna happen. They have enough control to exercise seniority to protect their historical income. It's the middle/junior masses that can stop this.
If we are waiting for the upper echelon of the seniority list to stand strong on this, it ain't gonna happen. They have enough control to exercise seniority to protect their historical income. It's the middle/junior masses that can stop this.
#18
You got it. The 27 FO and SO lists will have to be populated by a bunch of current MD 11 and Airbus FOs. The company doesn't have to train the excessed nuggets before those excessed from MEM seats.
It may not look like this with this excess, but you can bet the next one or two excess bids will strive to make this happen.
It may not look like this with this excess, but you can bet the next one or two excess bids will strive to make this happen.
#19
Jumbo: As I recall from the ANC passover pay settlement a couple of years ago, the company can train people from different seats at various times without triggering passover. In other words, you only need to be trained in seniority order among those from your former seat also going to your new seat. MEM 30FO to MEM 72FO is not the same animal as ANC MDFO to MEM 72FO. They can train/fill bases as they chose. Check out this language:
Excess Crew Positions
1. Pilots shall be excessed from crew positions in seniority order from among those pilots who bid to relieve that excess. If an insufficient number of pilots bid to relieve a crew position posted as excess, pilots shall be excessed from that crew position in reverse seniority order. Except as provided in Section 24.C.6.b., a pilot who has been excessed, or who has bid to relieve an excess, shall be awarded another permanent crew position in accordance with his seniority and standing bid; provided, however, no pilot may be awarded or assigned a crew position at an FDA base that would cause an excess at that base."
I believe this is the language they use to bypass the passover issue that you are contemplating. I could certainly be wrong, but I think this is the kind of language they used to not pay passover when they trained guys going to ANC who were junior before training senior guys going to Memphis.
Excess Crew Positions
1. Pilots shall be excessed from crew positions in seniority order from among those pilots who bid to relieve that excess. If an insufficient number of pilots bid to relieve a crew position posted as excess, pilots shall be excessed from that crew position in reverse seniority order. Except as provided in Section 24.C.6.b., a pilot who has been excessed, or who has bid to relieve an excess, shall be awarded another permanent crew position in accordance with his seniority and standing bid; provided, however, no pilot may be awarded or assigned a crew position at an FDA base that would cause an excess at that base."
I believe this is the language they use to bypass the passover issue that you are contemplating. I could certainly be wrong, but I think this is the kind of language they used to not pay passover when they trained guys going to ANC who were junior before training senior guys going to Memphis.
#20
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The only part I disagree with is that.... when a pilot is excessed they are trained in ... inverse seniority order. So if a nugget is excessed from ANC to 27FM and an Airbus FO is excessed to the same seat; the Nugget from ANC would have to be trained first since the all the Nuggets (I believe) are junior to the Airbus FOs in MEM. And if the company wanted to furlough the nuggets before the training, then they run into the same problems I discussed before about not being able to staff the FO and SO trips on the 27 in the interim.
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coldpilot
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10-22-2008 12:37 PM