FDX - April BLGs
03-07-2009, 11:10 AM
#31
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: A300/310 Capt
Posts: 1,642
Originally Posted by av8rmike
Ahhh, Spring is here and with it all the fruits and nuts. Allow me to turn your attention to the Contract, Section 25.M.1.g. wherein it states:
"If a reserve pilot has met or exceeded his RLG, his remaining R-day(s) in the bid period shall be removed without pay consequence."
Again I refer you to the April Bus RLG of 71:15. Using 6 CHs min per day of work, the Reserve holder can work a MAXIMUM of 12 days in April by the Contract. However, the Airbus Flex instructor will work a full 19 days, 7 more than the MAXIMUM a Reserve line holder could possibly work.
Why should a Flex instructor be required to work 7 days more than a fellow pilot's possible maximum days of work? I have no problem lowering the number of R-days published to correspond with the reality of days available as a function of the RLG. However, there is contractual protection already in place for these guys. They cannot, by the CBA, work more than 12 days in April. The Flex instructors DO NOT HAVE THIS PROTECTION. I made the words large and typed slowly so maybe this time you'll get it...
Nowhere in my original post did I comment on 'how hard it was'. I haven't had a seat support in at least 3 months. Contrary to your belief, they're not that common. As for trying to infer why I became and remain a Flex, don't. You just make yourself look like a pompous blowhard.
"If a reserve pilot has met or exceeded his RLG, his remaining R-day(s) in the bid period shall be removed without pay consequence."
Again I refer you to the April Bus RLG of 71:15. Using 6 CHs min per day of work, the Reserve holder can work a MAXIMUM of 12 days in April by the Contract. However, the Airbus Flex instructor will work a full 19 days, 7 more than the MAXIMUM a Reserve line holder could possibly work.
Why should a Flex instructor be required to work 7 days more than a fellow pilot's possible maximum days of work? I have no problem lowering the number of R-days published to correspond with the reality of days available as a function of the RLG. However, there is contractual protection already in place for these guys. They cannot, by the CBA, work more than 12 days in April. The Flex instructors DO NOT HAVE THIS PROTECTION. I made the words large and typed slowly so maybe this time you'll get it...
Nowhere in my original post did I comment on 'how hard it was'. I haven't had a seat support in at least 3 months. Contrary to your belief, they're not that common. As for trying to infer why I became and remain a Flex, don't. You just make yourself look like a pompous blowhard.
Being on call means that I cannot travel to the coast with my wife, or jumpseat to another city to watch the Memphis Tigers in the NCAA tournament. Therefore in my mind, I am working every day that I sit reserve, and I am sure that a commuter hot bedding in his crashpad down in Southaven Ms also considers each day a work day.
Secondly, I frequently am assigned airport standbys while on reserve, and they will be worth 3:45 next month. Just as you stated, no one is being leveled 71 hrs in a bid month on reserve, so they are sitting all of their reserve days.
03-07-2009, 11:11 AM
#32
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by Laughing_Jakal
First, the contract, specifically mentions maximum days of work. You're right...they were meant to match.
Perhaps you can't read the "minutia" in section 25 because you have lived in section 11 too long. By the way, I don't think # of days worked is "inconsequential minutia".....in addition, it is by the "inconsequential minutia" that the company has been handing us our @$$ with.
25.D.3. Reserve Line Construction
a. A reserve line consists entirely of R-days and days off.
b. In a 4-week bid period, a reserve line shall contain a maximum of 15 R-days. In a 5-week bid period, a reserve line shall contain a maximum of 19 R-days.
Second, you don't get paid the same as a reserve. You also get an over-ride correct?
c. In addition to all other compensation to which he is entitled, a flex instructor/PCA shall receive a bid period override commencing with the first month in the program. If a flex instructor/PCA is sick for an extended time (90 days or greater) and is incapable of performing duties as assigned, Bid Period Override will be stopped effective 90 days from the date he called sick in VIPS. Bid Period Override will be resumed when the pilot is off sick status. The bid period override shall be based on the number of consecutive years functioning as a Captain, First Officer or Second Officer flex instructor/PCA as follows:
i. Captains/First Officers
(a) Year 1: $800
(b) Year 2: $900
(c) Year 3: $1000
(d) Year 4 and above: $1100
ii. Second Officers
(a) Year 1: $600
(b) Year 2: $700
(c) Year 3 and above: $800
You can go to work to do support and do a 4 hour day. With a pre-brief and debrief, it is a 6.5 hour day. On reserve, when assigned a trip, it is much more than that.
Fourth.....why should you hate reserves? You could have bid as a reserve lineholder, just like I could have applied to become a flex instructor. I don't recall anyone placing a gun to your head to be home everynight, fly support and make your override. (I am not jealous by the way, but those are the benefits as I see them) I made the decision not to apply to become a flex based on how the specific contract language was employed.
I don't begrudge your reduced work schedule (Nor do I want it taken away). I just want to use the interpretation by your manager to be equally and uniformly applied across the contract. That is the reason we have a contract by the way. I am so happy for this development for you, I'd like to stand on camera at Fox news with my arm around your shoulder and say:
"My buddy flex here just got his schedule reduced to match our overmanning requirements so that each day of work did not constitute an extra-contractual hourly pay cut. The beautiful thing, is that if he still has to come in more than 13/17, he will now get 150%. Cudos to the interpretation that the manager of flight training has applied to our contract. We appreciate the precedent.
Now we would like the same interpretation of "maximum" applied in the same context to reserve schedules as (like the flexes). If our hours of service remain the same, then the current schedule constitutes an extra-contractual hourly pay cut. Since FedEx Express has already acknowledged this precedent in it's interaction between a manager and his flex instructors, we anticipate that this methodology be employed immediately for the construction of reserve lines."
I'm sure that with this precedent, when 4a2b grievances go to the arbitrator, we might even get some compensation out of it. I would hope contract admin would insist.
Finally, the joke about hating flexes by the other post was tongue in cheek, but if you think being a flex is such a bad deal (in your own words) quit before the next posting.
Perhaps you can't read the "minutia" in section 25 because you have lived in section 11 too long. By the way, I don't think # of days worked is "inconsequential minutia".....in addition, it is by the "inconsequential minutia" that the company has been handing us our @$$ with.
25.D.3. Reserve Line Construction
a. A reserve line consists entirely of R-days and days off.
b. In a 4-week bid period, a reserve line shall contain a maximum of 15 R-days. In a 5-week bid period, a reserve line shall contain a maximum of 19 R-days.
Second, you don't get paid the same as a reserve. You also get an over-ride correct?
c. In addition to all other compensation to which he is entitled, a flex instructor/PCA shall receive a bid period override commencing with the first month in the program. If a flex instructor/PCA is sick for an extended time (90 days or greater) and is incapable of performing duties as assigned, Bid Period Override will be stopped effective 90 days from the date he called sick in VIPS. Bid Period Override will be resumed when the pilot is off sick status. The bid period override shall be based on the number of consecutive years functioning as a Captain, First Officer or Second Officer flex instructor/PCA as follows:
i. Captains/First Officers
(a) Year 1: $800
(b) Year 2: $900
(c) Year 3: $1000
(d) Year 4 and above: $1100
ii. Second Officers
(a) Year 1: $600
(b) Year 2: $700
(c) Year 3 and above: $800
You can go to work to do support and do a 4 hour day. With a pre-brief and debrief, it is a 6.5 hour day. On reserve, when assigned a trip, it is much more than that.
Fourth.....why should you hate reserves? You could have bid as a reserve lineholder, just like I could have applied to become a flex instructor. I don't recall anyone placing a gun to your head to be home everynight, fly support and make your override. (I am not jealous by the way, but those are the benefits as I see them) I made the decision not to apply to become a flex based on how the specific contract language was employed.
I don't begrudge your reduced work schedule (Nor do I want it taken away). I just want to use the interpretation by your manager to be equally and uniformly applied across the contract. That is the reason we have a contract by the way. I am so happy for this development for you, I'd like to stand on camera at Fox news with my arm around your shoulder and say:
"My buddy flex here just got his schedule reduced to match our overmanning requirements so that each day of work did not constitute an extra-contractual hourly pay cut. The beautiful thing, is that if he still has to come in more than 13/17, he will now get 150%. Cudos to the interpretation that the manager of flight training has applied to our contract. We appreciate the precedent.
Now we would like the same interpretation of "maximum" applied in the same context to reserve schedules as (like the flexes). If our hours of service remain the same, then the current schedule constitutes an extra-contractual hourly pay cut. Since FedEx Express has already acknowledged this precedent in it's interaction between a manager and his flex instructors, we anticipate that this methodology be employed immediately for the construction of reserve lines."
I'm sure that with this precedent, when 4a2b grievances go to the arbitrator, we might even get some compensation out of it. I would hope contract admin would insist.
Finally, the joke about hating flexes by the other post was tongue in cheek, but if you think being a flex is such a bad deal (in your own words) quit before the next posting.
I also addressed your misconception about 4 hour seat supports. A reserve day is 'way more' than a 6.5 hour day? A one hour show time and a half hour pay after block in leaves a 5 hour block trip. Not seeing a ton of trips that exceed this going to my buds on reserve. Seems like it's pretty much apples to apples. Not really sure what point you were trying to make with this? I've worked both sides of the aisle and teaching is often more difficult than munching from the Scoobie Snack box on the way to LAX.
I did not anywhere in my post say being a Flex was 'such a bad deal'. Those are your words, not mine. I'm sure if the comment in the other post was tongue in cheek, so was my comment about line guys...
03-07-2009, 11:18 AM
#33
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by fedupbusdriver
I too am happy for the Flex guys getting a little relief from the 15/19, but also disagree with a few of your assumptions above.
Being on call means that I cannot travel to the coast with my wife, or jumpseat to another city to watch the Memphis Tigers in the NCAA tournament. Therefore in my mind, I am working every day that I sit reserve, and I am sure that a commuter hot bedding in his crashpad down in Southaven Ms also considers each day a work day.
Secondly, I frequently am assigned airport standbys while on reserve, and they will be worth 3:45 next month. Just as you stated, no one is being leveled 71 hrs in a bid month on reserve, so they are sitting all of their reserve days.
Being on call means that I cannot travel to the coast with my wife, or jumpseat to another city to watch the Memphis Tigers in the NCAA tournament. Therefore in my mind, I am working every day that I sit reserve, and I am sure that a commuter hot bedding in his crashpad down in Southaven Ms also considers each day a work day.
Secondly, I frequently am assigned airport standbys while on reserve, and they will be worth 3:45 next month. Just as you stated, no one is being leveled 71 hrs in a bid month on reserve, so they are sitting all of their reserve days.
There is, however, a difference between limiting what you can do because you're on call vs actually having to go in and work every single one of those 19 days. You won't get 19 days of apt stbys due to 1 in 7/10 and the realities of Reserve these days. Regardless, the Flex has to work all 19 days.
03-07-2009, 11:41 AM
#34
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Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: MD-11 Captain
Posts: 4,304
Originally Posted by av8rmike
"If a reserve pilot has met or exceeded his RLG, his remaining R-day(s) in the bid period shall be removed without pay consequence."
Again I refer you to the April Bus RLG of 71:15. Using 6 CHs min per day of work, the Reserve holder can work a MAXIMUM of 12 days in April by the Contract. However, the Airbus Flex instructor will work a full 19 days, 7 more than the MAXIMUM a Reserve line holder could possibly work.
Why should a Flex instructor be required to work 7 days more than a fellow pilot's possible maximum days of work?
Again I refer you to the April Bus RLG of 71:15. Using 6 CHs min per day of work, the Reserve holder can work a MAXIMUM of 12 days in April by the Contract. However, the Airbus Flex instructor will work a full 19 days, 7 more than the MAXIMUM a Reserve line holder could possibly work.
Why should a Flex instructor be required to work 7 days more than a fellow pilot's possible maximum days of work?
av8rmike,
Please cry your river somewhere else ...
I've been on Reserve most of the last 3 years. I have NEVER met or exceeded my RLG ... EVER (not even close). A major percentage of my R days the past several months have been Airport Standby Periods (paying 4+ hrs). So ... while you're home EVERY night, I'm at my crashpad. Next month complaining about how I'm there 19 days (without an override) and you flex bubbas have a seemingly better deal ... it will be fascinating to see how management spins this injustice?
Honestly, I don't dislike or begrudge the flex instructors (and I'm excited about this new seemingly good "days of work" adjustment, I think it's a terrific precedent for the rest of us pukes that are required to work under similar rules)... In fact, I appreciate the really good training I receive from almost all of them. I'm glad they want to be there ... I'd MUCH rather have an instructor that likes what they're doing.
03-07-2009, 11:50 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by MaydayMark
av8rmike,
Please cry your river somewhere else ...
I've been on Reserve most of the last 3 years. I have NEVER met or exceeded my RLG ... EVER (not even close). A major percentage of my R days the past several months have been Airport Standby Periods (paying 4+ hrs). So ... while you're home EVERY night, I'm at my crashpad. Next month complaining about how I'm there 19 days (without an override) and you flex bubbas have a seemingly better deal ... it will be fascinating to see how management spins this injustice?
Honestly, I don't dislike or begrudge the flex instructors (and I'm excited about this new seemingly good "days of work" adjustment, I think it's a terrific precedent for the rest of us pukes that are required to work under similar rules)... In fact, I appreciate the really good training I receive from almost all of them. I'm glad they want to be there ... I'd MUCH rather have an instructor that likes what they're doing.
Please cry your river somewhere else ...
I've been on Reserve most of the last 3 years. I have NEVER met or exceeded my RLG ... EVER (not even close). A major percentage of my R days the past several months have been Airport Standby Periods (paying 4+ hrs). So ... while you're home EVERY night, I'm at my crashpad. Next month complaining about how I'm there 19 days (without an override) and you flex bubbas have a seemingly better deal ... it will be fascinating to see how management spins this injustice?
Honestly, I don't dislike or begrudge the flex instructors (and I'm excited about this new seemingly good "days of work" adjustment, I think it's a terrific precedent for the rest of us pukes that are required to work under similar rules)... In fact, I appreciate the really good training I receive from almost all of them. I'm glad they want to be there ... I'd MUCH rather have an instructor that likes what they're doing.
What injustice? How many days on average have you actually been required to show up to work in the last 6 months? Talk about crying a river...
03-07-2009, 11:59 AM
#36
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Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Originally Posted by av8rmike
Again with the assumptions. A Flex is only 'home every night' if they live in Mempho. Since this seems to be the overriding concern of the majority of you out there, I guess you should check your target before you drop that bomb.
What injustice? How many days on average have you actually been required to show up to work in the last 6 months? Talk about crying a river...
What injustice? How many days on average have you actually been required to show up to work in the last 6 months? Talk about crying a river...
So guys sitting reserve aren't working? How about the IND hotel stbys are they working? How about the guys who slide with the BNA trips; they get paid six hours for what 4 hours work are they working?
03-07-2009, 12:23 PM
#37
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
So guys sitting reserve aren't working? How about the IND hotel stbys are they working? How about the guys who slide with the BNA trips; they get paid six hours for what 4 hours work are they working?
03-07-2009, 12:27 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Position: 767 FO
Posts: 8,047
Originally Posted by av8rmike
No, guys on call are not working. Are you serious about that? Guys in IND hotel stby are working as are the BNA example. Is this like a Jewish Shabbat question as to what constitutes work? Everyone I know who is at home playing with the family on call giggles when they call it work. They acknowledge it for what it is...
I don't think anyone is faulting flexes for what they do or what they get. They are just saying less than 4 hour a day for reserve pay is unacceptable just like it is unacceptable for a flex day.
Last edited by FDXLAG; 03-07-2009 at 12:38 PM.
03-07-2009, 12:54 PM
#39
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Joined APC: Sep 2006
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by FDXLAG
What is the difference between a guy on htl stby in IND or RA in south Haven crash pad? Accept one pays about twice as much as the other for 1 day of "work". What if the guy lives in Ind, should he be required to work an3 or 4 days of stby since he is home playing with the family?
I don't think anyone is faulting flexes for what they do or what they get. They are just saying less than 4 hour a day for reserve pay is unacceptable just like it is unacceptable for a flex day.
I don't think anyone is faulting flexes for what they do or what they get. They are just saying less than 4 hour a day for reserve pay is unacceptable just like it is unacceptable for a flex day.
My points have been directed to all the normal Flex bashers who are jumping up and down screaming that the Flex instructors were potentially getting fixed a little in April. Flex instructors will work 19 days in April, your average reserve guy will work 4 or 5 days. Who do you think should be fixed first?
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