202 Retirements by 2012 at UPS
08-21-2009 | 05:48 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Likes: 0
Last edited by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE; 08-21-2009 at 06:04 PM.
08-21-2009 | 06:02 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Likes: 0
That is what I have been trying to get across.
The other side of that coin is that the rates past year 7 could have been increased across the board to a greater amount. It wouldn't matter whether FO or CPT, both would have benefited. By increasing the pay for the first 7 years it arguably suppressed the raise for all the years later. In spite of the time value of money, I think most careers would have benefited by increasing pay more beyond year 7 and not so much in years 2-7.
The other side of that coin is that the rates past year 7 could have been increased across the board to a greater amount. It wouldn't matter whether FO or CPT, both would have benefited. By increasing the pay for the first 7 years it arguably suppressed the raise for all the years later. In spite of the time value of money, I think most careers would have benefited by increasing pay more beyond year 7 and not so much in years 2-7.
I bet you'd prefer to make $250K a year as a new hire even though you'd end up making only 33K during your last year... That way you could pay off your credit card bills, your mortgage, invest, etc, etc. "early" in your career... The gradually shrinking pay scale would be offset by your savings and great overall finances...
I think at regional airlines the captain pay is much more important because people move up to the left seat much sooner... At major airlines, such as UPS, AMR, DAL, FDX, etc I think it's better to focus on great FO rates (yes, I'm biased on this subject - just like you are) because often it takes literally several generation for us to upgrade. You going back to the left seat slowed down our upgrades even more which only proves my point...
I've never been on B&G - just curious, why did you post those retirement numbers for us anyways? Was it to cheer us up?
08-21-2009 | 06:26 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Likes: 0
Theoretically though, I think most of us would prefer the money upfront, can't see why this issue should be any different...
It's interesting how some of the senior captains would be telling us how its so important for all of us to be focusing on captain pay because after all, that's when we'd all be making "the big bucks"...
Of course, right after their "pep talk" many of them would be sending yet another big, fat check to their APAAD lobbyist... Yeah, right, the "greatest generation" at its best...
Last edited by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE; 08-21-2009 at 09:11 PM.
08-21-2009 | 08:00 PM
#45
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 674
Likes: 8
I think in the old contract the FO to CA pay percentages varied based on whether you were junior or a senior FO... The FO pay bump for year 2-8 basically eliminated the B-scale for junior FOs... I think with the new contract the FO to CA pay ratio stays fairly constant no matter whether the FO is junior or senior...
However the biggest $ change came from closing the spread on captains pay from 30% to around 17% These changes mostly effect those in longevity years of 2-7. This would only help those folks hired since the current contract was ratified. For the record I lobbied for this change.
This was mostly a bottom up fix, little was done in the mid to top end except for a inflation adjustment. The point I think some guys with more longevity are trying make is that, in a attempt to fix a thorny issue that we all had dealt with in the past, we forgot about years 8-35 as FO or CA. Where of course most of us will spend the majority of our careers.
Did I make any sense?
Last edited by Airbum; 08-21-2009 at 08:14 PM.
08-21-2009 | 08:58 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 0
In the old contract FO to CA pay percentages where varied basically the same way as the current contract. Old one was around 58%-67%. Current one is around 62%-67%. This is based on longevity and not seniority. We tightened the gap on percentage pay which is good imo.
However the biggest $ change came from closing the spread on captains pay from 30% to around 17% These changes mostly effect those in longevity years of 2-7. This would only help those folks hired since the current contract was ratified. For the record I lobbied for this change.
This was mostly a bottom up fix, little was done in the mid to top end except for a inflation adjustment. The point I think some guys with more longevity are trying make is that, in a attempt to fix a thorny issue that we all had dealt with in the past, we forgot about years 8-35 as FO or CA. Where of course most of us will spend the majority of our careers.
Did I make any sense?
However the biggest $ change came from closing the spread on captains pay from 30% to around 17% These changes mostly effect those in longevity years of 2-7. This would only help those folks hired since the current contract was ratified. For the record I lobbied for this change.
This was mostly a bottom up fix, little was done in the mid to top end except for a inflation adjustment. The point I think some guys with more longevity are trying make is that, in a attempt to fix a thorny issue that we all had dealt with in the past, we forgot about years 8-35 as FO or CA. Where of course most of us will spend the majority of our careers.
Did I make any sense?
08-22-2009 | 05:33 AM
#47
Permanent Reserve
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,722
Likes: 12
401K matching or B-funds are MUCH cheaper than a defined benefit (A) plan.
That is why many companies (not just airlines) are getting rid of A plans.
08-22-2009 | 06:54 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 579
Likes: 0
From: 757/767
The union gives virtually no publicity to those who retire, and I think a lot of us would like to see that information. When we were having new hires, the union would put a picture of each one in the paper. After 20 years with the IPA, however, they don't even bother to publish the names of those who retire, much less a picture and some comments.
08-22-2009 | 07:22 AM
#49
Permanent Reserve
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,722
Likes: 12
I play around with MS Excel like some play crossword puzzles. After being converted to the Excel format, the crew lists can be sorted numerous ways and some interesting information can result. (PS- I called them "departed crewmembers" but almost all of them were in fact retirements.)
The union gives virtually no publicity to those who retire, and I think a lot of us would like to see that information. When we were having new hires, the union would put a picture of each one in the paper. After 20 years with the IPA, however, they don't even bother to publish the names of those who retire, much less a picture and some comments.
The union gives virtually no publicity to those who retire, and I think a lot of us would like to see that information. When we were having new hires, the union would put a picture of each one in the paper. After 20 years with the IPA, however, they don't even bother to publish the names of those who retire, much less a picture and some comments.
Also, the comments that UPS posts may not be so nice
08-22-2009 | 07:32 AM
#50
Proponent of Hysteria
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,052
Likes: 0
From: 3B
I play around with MS Excel like some play crossword puzzles. After being converted to the Excel format, the crew lists can be sorted numerous ways and some interesting information can result. (PS- I called them "departed crewmembers" but almost all of them were in fact retirements.)
The union gives virtually no publicity to those who retire, and I think a lot of us would like to see that information. When we were having new hires, the union would put a picture of each one in the paper. After 20 years with the IPA, however, they don't even bother to publish the names of those who retire, much less a picture and some comments.
The union gives virtually no publicity to those who retire, and I think a lot of us would like to see that information. When we were having new hires, the union would put a picture of each one in the paper. After 20 years with the IPA, however, they don't even bother to publish the names of those who retire, much less a picture and some comments.
Man if that is what it takes to get guys to retire than the IPA ought to be all over it!
FedEx allows each retiring pilot to draft an FCIF and they are pretty interesting to read.
ALPA also prints their date in the pocket calendar. Those are nice touches.
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