sryan423

What does everyone think of FedEx training pilots out of order in the excess process? This has affected several pilots who were excessed out of ANC to the right seat of the 727. Most of these pilots are in or will enter 727 training in the next few months while pilots junior to them (excessed to SO in the 727) are still flying the MD-11 in ANC and making wide body pay until as late as July 2010. There are also junior 757 FOs who don't train until Dec 2011! This is a clear violation of Contract Paragraph 24.D.3.a:

Training Due To Excess
Pilots involuntarily excessed from a crew status shall be scheduled for
training in reverse seniority order. Application of this paragraph shall not
trigger passover pay for the involuntarily excessed pilots.

I'm familiar with the ANC case, but I'm sure there are others affected. The Union doesn't seem to want to fight this. Any thoughts?

LivingInMEM

Isn't the training order determined by each seat excessed to? As long as all of those within each seat are training in seniority order they are abiding by the contract.

MD11Fr8Dog

Yep, seat you're going to, not from! Yes, some guys will be going to B727 FO training before some junior to them go to B727 SO training. This has been discussed here a few times, including before and during the last excess bid!

Kooky

There are pay issues created by junior flex instructors being kept in 757 school house until NOV 11. ALOT of 727 SO's senior to them are going to training first. Check out 727 training letter. i.e. creating passover/OCP (certain name for it?) for these more senior SO trainee's

DLax85

This has happened to many 727 Capts who've been excessed too

....however, after the first 777 bid many saw that they could delay their downgrade by bidding 777 FO rather than MD-11 or A300 FO, and later bid the 777 on subsequent excess bids to do just that.

The company's position will most likely be --- if you wanted to delay your training the most you should have bid 727 SO, and then you could have stayed in ANC longer --- but of course, you'd end up in the back of the Purple Slave Ship at a lower pay rate until the next FO vacancy bid or SO excess bid.

...Worth it in terms of pay or QOL?

I don't know --- I think that would be an individual preference.

Bottom line: Yes --- being excessed $uck$!!

Gunter

Training out of order? Does it say that in the contract? Really?

Me thinks the order of training is for the seat you are going to, not from.

kronan

Seem to recall that generating the training was a combination of base and future seat.
If so, an excessed pilot from ANC would be scheduled differently than an excessed pilot from MEM.
Not to mention the difference between pilots who bid to relieve and be excessed versus those who bid the status quo and wound up being invol excessed

DaRaiders

The contract says nothing about the seat that you are going to.

DaRaiders

Show me in the contract where it says it is about the seat you are going to.

subicpilot

He doesn't have to. There are lots of instances of interpretation or precedent in the way the company does business that are not specifically stated in the CBA. This is how the company has always processed training in at least the last 10 years or so. Training dates are a function of BOTH the seat you are coming from, and the seat you are going to. Generally, things happen in seniority order, but there are always staffing issues with regard to instructors, and different domiciles/relocation issues and like kronan said, bidding to relieve vs. being excessed, that throw a wrench into the works. These things potentially affect passover pay, but the company builds the training letter. Not sure about exactly how passover is computed.