There was a previous grievance that resulted from the DC-10 excess bid. The company was sending DC-10 FOs to MD-11 ANC FO training prior to junior guys who were excessed off the 727 to MD-11 ANC FO. Union won the grievance because of the "Settlement on Standing Procedure Agreement" which resulted from a different grievance on posting 08-01. You can find the agreement by going to posting 08-02, click the next to last link, and look at para F. I won't quote the verbiage, but it is easy enough to find.

 

I can't think of another airline that does it this way either. Since this company has never seen backwards movement like this before I can't see how anyone can say there is precedent with this. I think we are in uncharted territory and if there ever was precedent you can gleam it by looking at the other airlines and how they go backwards which is seniority period. That is why it becomes so expensive to furlough at the legacies because you end up training a guy in 3-4 different seats within a couple years. Our company has managed to avoid this somehow with the way it awards training. Personally I can't see how you wouldn't have to pay passover to a guy who is senior and has been excessed while a junior excessed guy sits in his wanted seat making more money do to the training letter dates. It is obvious that the company has designed the training letter specifically to allow them to have there cake and eat it too. They know many of these guys will never go to the training they have been excessed to because they designed it this way. I think ALPA needs to look at this closer.

 

Union is on the 727 FO with MD-11 Flex instructors being delayed to training. Some FO's on 727 got the (passover pay). All 727 SO's going to training before the junior listed guys who are currently 757 instructors should get this extra pay. Its not called passover but something like OCP pay.

 

The company should publish a "practice training letter" along with the practice bid. A lot of ANC FOs would have seen the order and elected to bid SO.

There is another issue. Junior pilots who are not in training yet are allowed to bid Hong Kong while senior pilots who are in 727 FO ITU cannot because of contract paragraph: 24.E.2.
Bidding Restrictions on Subsequent Postings
During the time a pilot is in ITU training, he shall not be awarded a crew status that he could have been awarded on the posting containing the crew position for which he presently is in training, or on a subsequent posting that closed prior to the start of his training.

This restriction only applies to pilots who are in ITU. If the company excessed in "reverse seniority order" these pilots would not be in training and thus allowed to bid HK.

 

Section 24

But.... In Section D.3

Activation procedures apply by crew position (otherwise known as seat going to) EXCEPT when it is training due to excess. So I was wrong about training in seat going to. I came to the conclusion that if training was not in seniority order I thought a passover type pay would be required, then I read the words in italics.

I don't know if Bid to relieve falls under "Training due to Excess".

I am also confused by the last part. It says folks will go in seniority order then it seems to indicate if they don't they cannot get passover pay. Not sure what to make of that.

Did you say the ALPA legal types are not addressing this?

Why is our contract written like a bad TV show?

 

Clipping---Application of this paragraph shall not trigger passover pay for the
involuntarily excessed pilots.

All that means is that if you were involuntarily excessed into a higher paying seat position the training of JR to SR guys wouldn't trigger passover pay(727 to HKG FO one possibility)

 

The way that reads to me is that your training dates will be in Seniority order period - Not dependent upon what airplane you are going to. There is no reference to your award in that language only seniority number.