vagabond

Ernst, please check your PMs.

This thread was and still is intended to be a memorial thread, and everything that is not an expression of condolence or support is thread drift and will be deleted. If you would like to discuss anything else (this is not speculation), feel free to start a new thread on that topic. Thanks.

Ernst

Thank you. I apologize for the thread drift.

I had intended the utmost of respect for our friends with a wish list of must-have safety items to be incorporated as a living legacy to their professionalism and courage.

Buck92

With genuine respect to the family/friends of our fallen brothers, I do think it's a bit unrealistic to expect others in the same vocation not to speculate or search for and (hopefully in the process) educate themselves as to the cause and potential (future) mitigating factors to such an event. I'm sure most of us feel, on some level, "there but for the ..." As previously stated, it could have been any one of us.

I can certainly understand a moritorium on any type of "blaming the victim"/pilot error (and I am IN NO WAY suggesting anything of the sort) rhetoric or speculation. But to delete links to legal opinons, articles describing the presence or absence of flight deck safety equip, etc. is a bit over the top. Certainly those personally close to the UPS 6 crew have some responsibility to avoid surfing sites that contain information likely to exacerbate their understandible pain given the situation at hand.

I think there must be some way to comply with the family/EB request while still allowing honest information that may be relevant to our chosen vocation and the dangers we all face on the job. The "nothing to see here, quit looking, quit trying to understand" framework is unhelpful.

With regard to thread drift, perhaps that would be less of a problem if the thread was renamed "UPS 6 747...Dubai Memorial"

acl65pilot

No one is stating you cannot discuss the topic, just not on this thread. That is what was the request and what the mods have reiterated.

wldplt

This thread is reserved for statements of sympathy? Really? I posted a quick note about EVAS with a link to a study on smoke in the cockpit related incidents with real world application to this specific type of incident and it's deleted because I didn't express a maudlin sympathy for two guys I don't know?

Personally, I thought pilots forums primary purpose was to further the art of aviation, we learn from our mistakes and move on. I guess I'm on the wrong forum. PPRUNE might better serve. I know this post will be deleted post haste (no pun intended). Along with deleting the post, please delete my membership to this poor excuse for an aviation forum.

The Walrus

I believe that the request was The Lampe and Bell families have asked that no accident pictures or any pictures of Doug or Matthew be posted to the Bar & Grill. Please respect their wishes until informed of any changes.

The family should be aware of the Company's quest for having the latest and greatest safety devices available to the crew force, or not available, whatever the case may be.

767pilot

wow, what a class act.

wldplt

My points are apparently lost on you. We have an opportunity to further safety in the cockpit via this forum but it's wasted. What serves the memory of the aviators lost in the accident better, eulogies for two guys I didn't know or a hew and cry for equipment that could prevent this in the future? I know which side I come down on.

jungle

Kind of sad that people want to grind an axe instead of honor the dead. They can grind their axe any day, let us set aside a few days for those who have died and honor their memory and also remember those who go forth every day with the knowledge that a similar fate may befall them.

You may not have known these fine gentlemen, but perhaps it is a little different for those who knew and flew with them recently. It makes the effect that much closer, it is not an abstract event.

Start a safety thread and share your vast expertise.

767pilot

Apparently. I don't want to say any more on this thread as it has morphed into a testimpnial by the mods. You can further safety all you want, please start a different thread is all anyone asked. I thought you were leaving, anyway?