Not sure exactly what are you saying here. We opened Pandora's box by approving the last FDA LOA. Many of us tried to tell you that it was a bad deal. Guess what, it was.

So what is FDX going to do if we vote against the TA? I'll tell you, I'm not concerned. Do they really want to hire foreign pilots during contract negotiations? When we stay consistently undermanned? Some of you have already forgotten about 4.A.2.b. I haven't. I don't think we'll get that money back, but we can do better than a cost of living increase.

I don't care if people bid MD-11/HKG. If the current deal is good enough for them, they probably should. For those that are already in HKG, I really don't care too much about your current situation. You knew the deal and you bid it. Pretty much goes for the early 777 pilots too. However, I know that the 777 is the real future for a large group of us, so it doesn't make sense to teach them a lesson. It really just hurts the pilot group as a whole.

So, let them find new measures to make it work. It's their job. If they hire Irish pilots to fly intra Europe, so be it. Hopefully we can finally get united enough to show some of that intestinal fortitude that you mentioned.

Why is everyone so scared about what the company will do if we don't roll over? Honestly, I just don't get it.

Voting is open, I've already added one for the NO column...

 

In short I am saying , FDA's are not leverage, anymore. The first round, they had a leverage like quality and I voted NO on that one too.

I am not claiming the world will fall apart with a no vote, actually saying quite the opposite. Life will go on, in this case with less money than we would have if the TA passes.

As far as the deal on the table, it makes sense to me. We are not going to get hurt by taking this deal. That is my opinion, and those of you that think the FDA is not worthy of the gains in this TA, then I am sure you will vote accordingly.

Unfortunately the only way we will know who was "correct" is if it fails, that is what I find funny about those claiming the lone dissenting vote in the FDA v1.0, was "right". Well he was right that it was a sub par piece of... It passed and, and with the exception of some F/O slots has been successful. We will never know how much more we could of got, because it passed. Now it is time to stop looking in the rear-view mirror on the FDA and improve it for those wanting to go in the future.

That is all, I don't like 4a2b or FDA's, but voting this down will not help our cause. That is the way I see it.

 

How about if it passes and FDX does not come to the table for 4 years. Wont that tell you something about what FDX wanted in this deal?

No had LOA 1.0 not passed (and remember it passed with a lot of changes) The company could not have opened HKG and their choice would have been to man it with SIBA, bargain some more, Or not open HKG. It was leverage then and it is leverage now,

 

Agree with the "then" part, just not the now part. Hard to replay that game, since we will never be able to see a deal in play for HKG that does not have the same level of leverage as having NO LOA in place.

Maybe with CGN? IF this gets voted down we will see how bad they want to start up the base in EU? But the HKG ship has sailed...sadly

Have a good weekend all! Remember to vote, no matter what your poison is.

 

I was just replying to your post where you said we will only know who was right if this thing fails. I think we will have a pretty good idea who was right and who was wrong either way. If it passes and it takes forever to negotiate a new contract then it will be safe to say the company likes the bridge a whole lot more than we (the Mec) thought. If it fails and no contract for a while I will say you were right. If it fails and we get a new TA right away (under 2 years) you would have to admit we had some hidden leverage.

 

i agree with all, that is why I am voting yes. Too many "what ifs" in the face of real gains. Your summary is a very accurate and simple portrayal of the decision. I would rather find out the answer to the million dollar question with a few more pennies in my pocket and not have to risk, even this paltry amount of gains, on the leverage will have or don't have.

How about we take this money and gains and act like a crewforce that wants a real contract? That is my wish. Speaking to the choir to most people on this board, you guys know what it takes to bring leverage to bear its the other ones we worry about.

 

You hit the nail absolutely on the head with this post. I agree 100%. Take the gains and pull this group together. Vote it down and risk more division. Why? Because it's not those that want to vote it down now that we need to worry about!

 

What if it fails and they don't come to the table for four years?

What if, during that time, the economy slows and we see the current, unmodified at all, version of 4a2b again?

What if the slow economy results in a Republican president?

What if group that voted "yes" is so mad at the loss of the gains we passed up that they become disenfranchised and we cannot come together as a group?

 

What a joke. The only reason there is a "TA" so fast is that the company needs something now. If it fails, they'll still need it.

 

Any good German language courses? Berlitz? Pimsleur?