Because of the type of flying done in it. Geez! Pay attention!!

 

What? Put T-6 time under the T-6 drop down? You must be some sort of comedian?

 

Wasn't trying to be....but it is kind of funny reading it now

 

The JFS is another motor...

 

Guess the 'B' model will count as multi-engine though right?

USMCFLYR

 

Not to thread drift too far here but here was my situation a few, well maybe more than a few yrs back...I had 2000 hours civilian, including 1000+ as in instructor (all piston time), and over 500 in the rt seat of an RJ for a Part 121 carrier and I had over 1000 military hours in the rt seat of KC-135. I wouldn't get a look at any major airlines because I lacked the standard 1000 hours of PIC turbine time. Yet any F-16 guy with only 1000 Viper hours would get a job right away w/most any airline. Say for example, If I'm going to sit rt seat in 737 for SWA for 10 yrs, why does a guy who basically flew VFR off his leads wing to less than a dozen different airports in his first 500 hours then was probably a 2 ship flt lead (mostly day VFR flying) for his next 500 hours have more "appeal" to SWA (just using them as an example) than a guy who already flew for an airline, has been to 100's of airports in bad weather, and flies a CFM-56 powered large multi-engine Boeing product? I know PIC means you have shown you can make good decisions but I don't think you get 2000 hours civilian and 1000 hours mil because you have shown you make bad decisions. I know the Viper guys will be up in arms over this and I'm not saying you guys aren't great pilots, I know you are. I have flown the KC-135 with several former Viper guys and they'll all tell you the -135 is a much harder beast to fly. Just curious as to what some of your takes might be. I'm not hating, just curious as to what others think.

As an aside, the active duty Air Force is producing large quantities of KC-135 Instructor Pilots with 2000 hours total time, 1000 PIC and 98% of that time is at 3 airports, home station, a base in England, and a base in the middle east. I knew a guy with 3000 hrs in the -135 (IP, good guy, good stick) and had been to 7 airports in his life (after UPT)!

 

I'll chime in on this part.

I haven't seen anyone say that "flying" the Viper (or any 4th generation fighter for that matter) is *harder* to fly than many other aircraft. Matter of fact, the Hornet is so easy to fly from point A to point B that students solo after their 4th flight; then they train for up to the next year learning how to employ it as a weapons system. That is the *hard* part and that is where that guy flying VFR (off his lead no doubt into only a few airports like you say) makes decision after decision after decision as PIC.

It seems that you had some pretty good experience when you say that no major would give you a look because you didn't have the magical 1000 TPIC; but that is where they have drawn the line for some reason.

I don't know much about the KC-135 community but I'm surprised that you made it out of your commitment without that magical number of TPIC.

For some reason the airlines seem to like military pilots of all sizes and shapes. Maybe it is the standardized quality of training that they know they have received, maybe it is the basic leadership that they know they have been indoctrinated with through their 10 year minimum career (now), or the work ethic they bring to the job. I guess they like military single seat fighter guys enough to make an exception for them.

USMCFLYR

 

HJS,
IMHO USMCflyer was spot on about the flying vs employment in the tactical aircraft thing. Sometimes it is much more difficult being the wingman than the flight lead. Not sure of it is now but typically it used to be a tactical guy would get 200 hours in a good year. Average flight duration would be .8 to 1.3 hours A 135 guy could get 500 with an average flight duration of between 4 and 8 hours. The upgrade for a tanker guy was normally around the 3 year point. So at the 5 year point between 2000 and 2500 hours with 1000 PIC. Flight lead upgrade was normally around the 2-3 year point. so after 3 years in a tactical aircraft, flight lead with about 600 hours. All PIC. 5 year point, 1000 hours PIC. So really the numbers sort of balance out.

I don't think anyone will argue that the big R is a handful in crosswinds. Your hours are very good but for some reason, the companies have the PIC requirement. I believe for the reasons you stated. All airframes have "why mine is tougher" scenario. Heart rates of pilots at night in the wx to the carrier have been recorded to be the same heart rate as in combat. So regardless if the guy is only a wingman, he still has to get back aboard. Flying to only a few airports might not be optimum but I think the emphasis might be on not where they are going but what they are doing. Not saying one airframe is better than the other. The aviation community needs diversity. The companies just decide who gets to play in the game.

 

Having flown for 3 different airlines, well two airlines and a package delivery company, I believe that they all like hiring "captains." For whatever reason, I think they feel that bringing someone on board who has been the pilot in command is, over the long term, a better candidate than someone who has not had the overall responsibility of commanding either a large turbo-jet, large jet, or jet fighter/attack aircraft. Regardless of mission type, or which A/C is more difficult to operate, or which brings one to more different airports, captains usually show a more consistent ability to successfully handle the issues and problems, as well as the abnormal and emergency procedures that, from time to time, rear their ugly heads.

At FedEx we have a lot of guys who are senior, but elect to forgo captain upgrades, so that they can stay in a more junior seat. It would be interesting to go back and look to see if there is some relationship between staying out of the left seat and their flying history. Another thing I've noticed is that once you roll out on final (except guys landing on boats) most commercial airport runways look the same.

JJ

 

USMCFLYR-I've always been in the Reserves, still in...now an EP with 4000 hours in the -135...I was just relating my personal situation about 10 yrs ago, that's all. Like I said, I'm not hating on anyone and there is a reason I never wanted to fly a hornet, I like my runways in the same spot, don't like those moving runways, esp. in bad wx at nt! Don't know how you guys do it. I'm sure doing CAS over the mountains at nt gets the heart rate up as well. I'm also pretty sure 90% of all fighter pilots would be surprised at some of the stuff we do in the tanker, maybe not all of it cosmic but when we do get fighter guys on board (esp for an combat sortie), there's a lot of, "no $h!t, I didn't know you guys had to do that". I'm sure if I got a back seat ride in an F/A-18 or F-16, I'd be like, "wow, that's pretty cool, glad I don't have to worry about that". I have sat in many fighter cockpits and I find my thoughts drift back to the mighty mighty KC-135 because I still prefer to stand up when I pee ;-).