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Old 12-13-2011, 09:52 AM   #1  
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Default When to decline sub at FDX

Say you are doing a normal hub turning week. Wed you are put in sub. Then on the way back to Memphis Tue night you break and are stuck out. Is it to your advantage to decline the sub and sit at the outbase in overage or do you want to keep the sub and do you get paid for both. Contract is confusing, was going to happen last night and I didnt know which was better.

For that matter if you have a week of hubturns and break the first night and stay there all week how do they deal with that--do they put the rest of the week into sub
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Old 12-13-2011, 10:38 AM   #2  
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overage ...
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:03 AM   #3  
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If the overage exceeds the trip guarantee you'll get from sub, then yes - take the overage. In most cases that's probably the best option.

If you're talking about basic 6 hour hub turn trips, it's not going to take much to get you over 6 hours of overage. If they extend you 24 hours and bring you back to join the normal hub turn cycle, then you'd be talking about 6-ish more hours at 150% plus an extra duty period at 3.5 CH.

If your conflicted trip was longer, you'd have to do the math and see which paid more.
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Old 12-13-2011, 11:04 AM   #4  
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Unfortunately, it depends. If you have two 6 hr trips and If they bring you back the following night then overage would be better(plus any disruptions or extra duty,recall from rest, far extension). If they bring you back during the day, you need to do the calculation to see which pays more. If the sub trip is longer than 6 hours, then definitely run the numbers.

If you break the first night and they keep you with the broken plane, the following paragraph applies. They will keep revising your schedule with the trip that you are on and applicable subs. As they keep revising your trip(more pay hours), they will shift to the applicable trip to sub.
4.12.bb.77. If a trip extends more than 2 hours into time scheduled free from duty at base, overage compensation for the first 12 CH shall be paid at 150% of the pilotís normal pay rate. If a pilot earns more than 12 CH of overage on a trip, the excess shall be paid at 200% of the pilotís normal pay rate.

So you need to run the math to see if keeping the original pay or the trip with overage attached. No real clean cut answer but take the 15 minutes and run the numbers both ways. It is definitely financially worth it!!!!
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Old 12-13-2011, 01:11 PM   #5  
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Will someone please develop an App that tells you the best Sub option!
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Old 12-13-2011, 08:17 PM   #6  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by decrabbitz View Post
Will someone please develop an App that tells you the best Sub option!
It would probably be easier to solve cold fusion.
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Old 12-14-2011, 01:15 PM   #7  
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Depends upon your situation and what you want to do. If you elect OTP, you are pay protected for almost 3 months....but, month 3 you'll see a -CH. Bonus is you get preferential treatment on makeup requests and there is a bump in the CH as well.

Downside is you might make the decision on CRS plan, and then they revise the plan.....but, you don't get to change your mind.

In general, if my conflict is going to extend to the next day, electing OTP is going to pay better. If my conflict is on the last day, and it barely overlaps the trip (getting back at 0200 when I had an 0130 show-or it was an 8/24 problem) then I will generally go with rolling the dice and sticking with SUB. Important thing to remember with SUB is that I don't have to hang out at the airport, it's kind of like a mini reserve period.
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Old 12-14-2011, 01:43 PM   #8  
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In the ALPA calendar red pages there is a detailed description of your options. It is well written but can still be a bit confusing. Overage is almost always a good deal unless the company builds you an immediate dh to base the next day. BTW.....when the company initially rebuilds the pairing immediately after you get sent back to the hotel, there will be an updated credit hour value of the trip. This can still change and actually be a lower value if another rebuild occurs and they dh you home. This is what can lead to overage not being the best deal but you will at least be made whole with the additional 3+30 you will get from the extra duty period pay you will be due (need to put in for that additional pay also). Good luck.
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Old 12-14-2011, 04:35 PM   #9  
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Get the electronic version of all those calendar pages from the FDX ALPA website
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Old 12-15-2011, 07:28 AM   #10  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronan View Post
Depends upon your situation and what you want to do. If you elect OTP, you are pay protected for almost 3 months....but, month 3 you'll see a -CH. Bonus is you get preferential treatment on makeup requests and there is a bump in the CH as well.

Downside is you might make the decision on CRS plan, and then they revise the plan.....but, you don't get to change your mind.

In general, if my conflict is going to extend to the next day, electing OTP is going to pay better. If my conflict is on the last day, and it barely overlaps the trip (getting back at 0200 when I had an 0130 show-or it was an 8/24 problem) then I will generally go with rolling the dice and sticking with SUB. Important thing to remember with SUB is that I don't have to hang out at the airport, it's kind of like a mini reserve period.


One problem with this school of thought is that you have to elect OTP prior to the showtime of the trip, or when notified of substitution. However, if you keep the SUB period, and your extended trip conflicts with the whole SUB period, or enough of it to make Overage more lucrative, you can retroactively drop the trip that was Subbed, and get overage for that time frame. You have until :30 min after blockin of the extended trip to figure out the pros and cons and do the drop. I will give you a real world example.

Inbound to MEM Tues evening with a stop in CPR. The airplane hard breaks in CPR. Was supposed to hub turn, so placed in SUB for 6ch trip. Maintenance takes till Friday morning to get airplane fixed. Have a 8ch trip (25hr layover) scheduled to show at 1345L in MEM Friday afternoon. Trip from CPR to MEM takes until 1500L to block in, so placed in SUB for 8ch trip.

Now, the first SUB period is worth 6ch. However, if dropped, you will earn 22:50 TAFB (numbers for specific trip in question,YMMV) at overage rate 150%, which is way more than 6ch. So, retroactively drop first trip that caused 1st SUB period and keep overage.

Second SUB is worth 8ch. The original extended trip conflicts with 1:45 of Sub period (1500L blockin + :30 postflight.) By this time, overage is 200%, so overage would be TAFB for 1:45 at 200%. Since 1:45 TAFB is worth about 00:28ch, your choice is being paid 8ch for SUB or getting 00:28ch at 200%. In this case, keep the SUB, forego the overage, and know that chances are slim that CRS will come up with a SUB assignement at 1530L on a Friday afternoon.
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