Normal FedEx Approach??
11-25-2012 | 03:37 PM
#71
Line Holder
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 535
Likes: 0
From: The IPA EB speaks for me
av8rmike, well said.
Inbd right flap might be seen moving and trigger a nice GPWS "too low, gear"
Glad it worked out.
Inbd right flap might be seen moving and trigger a nice GPWS "too low, gear"
Glad it worked out.
Last edited by MoosePileit; 11-25-2012 at 03:38 PM. Reason: to add- if you carpet dance, do so Gungham style.
11-25-2012 | 04:46 PM
#72
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,184
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From: leaning to the left
Ok, I'll try again. My point was that there seems to be a normalization of doing descent/decel planning to be stable right at 500' if VMC. If everyone just targeted stable at 1K instead, you wouldn't have this video. The complaint I hear about doing this is "you're slowing down too early!"
If 120kts (Vapp) at 1K instead of 180kts at 1K, what's it really cost in time? Assuming both situations would be 120kts at 500', you have 500' to play with. Also, making the math really simple, I'm assuming an instantaneous decel from 180kts to 120kts right at 500'.
Three degree glide path is 314'/nm, so 500'=1.6nm. Compare the difference in time to travel this 1.6nm at 120kts (48 sec) vs 180kts (32 sec). I just don't get the cavalier attitudes I see regarding stable approaches and the willingness most display to say "close enough". All over less than 16 seconds?... If you routinely target stable at 1K, you've at least got a fighting chance to make it with the Mempho 30kt tailwinds. Fly however you want, it just doesn't make any sense to me.
If 120kts (Vapp) at 1K instead of 180kts at 1K, what's it really cost in time? Assuming both situations would be 120kts at 500', you have 500' to play with. Also, making the math really simple, I'm assuming an instantaneous decel from 180kts to 120kts right at 500'.
Three degree glide path is 314'/nm, so 500'=1.6nm. Compare the difference in time to travel this 1.6nm at 120kts (48 sec) vs 180kts (32 sec). I just don't get the cavalier attitudes I see regarding stable approaches and the willingness most display to say "close enough". All over less than 16 seconds?... If you routinely target stable at 1K, you've at least got a fighting chance to make it with the Mempho 30kt tailwinds. Fly however you want, it just doesn't make any sense to me.
11-25-2012 | 04:54 PM
#73
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,149
Likes: 46
From: Volleyball Player
After burning off that much Jet A, it's now a lighterweight 2-engined heavy plane...Having done enough 2-out-of-3 approaches in sims, it's not that big a deal if one out of three is gone. One out of two is a bit more of an issue, but I can't imagine there's much difference in their manual when doing a 2-engined approach.
11-25-2012 | 05:44 PM
#75
Banned
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 798
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From: 757 Capt
Landing flaps are either 35 or 50 in the MD-10/MD-11 - not 40 (but you probably knew that 
)
I would be open to your idea of a "reasonable explanation" - but it depends on what your definition of "wrong" is.
Anything is "possible"......
**Note: Before you answer - check the MD-11/10 CFM, MD-11/10 FCTM, and the FOM - especially FOM section 1.01 & 1.03
(documents outlining how the FAA has approved FedEx to operate their aircraft/airline)
***Note also: maintenance check flights are not done on revenue flights from MEM to ORD - so that "reasonable explanation" is out from the start.
)I would be open to your idea of a "reasonable explanation" - but it depends on what your definition of "wrong" is.
Anything is "possible"......
**Note: Before you answer - check the MD-11/10 CFM, MD-11/10 FCTM, and the FOM - especially FOM section 1.01 & 1.03
(documents outlining how the FAA has approved FedEx to operate their aircraft/airline)
***Note also: maintenance check flights are not done on revenue flights from MEM to ORD - so that "reasonable explanation" is out from the start.
The point was that none of us was there, none of us knows the circumstances, and therefore none of us can come to an informed conclusion.
There are a lot of candidates for flight management positions on this board. Why does everybody want to assume that the crew is in the wrong? I don't get it. I thought this was a pilot board. God help any of us that ever sit in front of a jury of our peers.
PIPE
11-25-2012 | 06:10 PM
#77
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,064
Likes: 37
From: 767 Captain
I'm not sure why you would "imagine" there's not much difference. A single engine approach in an MD-10-10 is a pretty big deal. It can barely get out of its own way with 3 engines. Losing 66% of your available thrust tends to be a big deal on any aircraft, IMO.With an of the MD-11/-10 family a two-engine out approach is significantly different than just one engine out. It's a slats only approach, airspeeds are significantly higher, no auto-throttles during landing and no go-around option once the gear is down or the aircraft is below 1000' AGL.
Single engine out is a non-event in comparison. Normal flap settings and speeds and auto-land is even an option.
11-25-2012 | 06:24 PM
#80
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Joined: Jan 2008
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From: A300
Being bored I'll say at least 2 were running because they had the flaps down. The flight blocked as scheduled and from TOD first leveled at 11,000 for a couple minutes than started final approach from 4000', 12 minutes later. If they had fuel issues they left MEM with them. What scenario are you hoping those things lock out 15 seconds before you need them. Too many sims to count and never was putting myself that far down sans gear except for when it was an oops, It will happen and thats why they have that mode of the GPWS.
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