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-   -   China Southern so cheap they wont deice (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/cargo/72386-china-southern-so-cheap-they-wont-deice.html)

Nightflyer 01-19-2013 07:57 AM

He landed in CAN
 
According to Google, that flight goes NRT to CAN.

So, you are entering communist China, do you really want to call the Captain to task?:confused:

Perhaps show him the pics you took?:eek:

You might get to meet the local cops, and have a little visit to the big house on some trumped up charges.

They would also take your camera to destroy the evidence.

Personally, I am of the opinion that the OP did the right thing.

Of course, you guys do what you want.

DYNASTY HVY 01-19-2013 08:11 AM


Originally Posted by Nightflyer (Post 1334171)
According to Google, that flight goes NRT to CAN.

So, you are entering communist China, do you really want to call the Captain to task?:confused:

Perhaps show him the pics you took?:eek:

You might get to meet the local cops, and have a little visit to the big house on some trumped up charges.

They would also take your camera to destroy the evidence.

Personally, I am of the opinion that the OP did the right thing.

Of course, you guys do what you want.

There are ways of asking questions by not being offensive and it's called tact.
I,m sure the crew was well aware of what they had on the wings and showing pictures would be a moot point.

SonnyD 01-19-2013 10:37 AM


Originally Posted by DYNASTY HVY (Post 1334144)
Don't know why this wasn't brought up but the question I have is why the O.P. did not address his concerns to the crew upon arrival at dest.?

Um, pardon me for not finding the value in this. What would you see being the best possible outcome should your suggested course of action have come to pass?

MacGuy2 01-19-2013 10:57 AM


Originally Posted by FDXLAG (Post 1334036)
Might be some legal concerns they have to run through the lawyers before or if they respond.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is no written response. They (the Company) just took it for action. Good on them! No sense inflaming the Chinese with something in writing. Just my guess, though.

MG2

DYNASTY HVY 01-19-2013 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by SonnyD (Post 1334262)
Um, pardon me for not finding the value in this. What would you see being the best possible outcome should your suggested course of action have come to pass?

Possibly a good answer from the crew during the course of conversation.

MeXC 01-19-2013 11:19 AM


Originally Posted by DYNASTY HVY (Post 1334273)
Possibly a good answer from the crew during the course of conversation.

What possible "good answer" could the crew have given? Answer: none.
Result: defensive crew. Good luck with a positive outcome in that situation.

PicklePausePull 01-19-2013 03:09 PM

Sunburn:

Good on ya for raising the BS flag and keeping the rest of us safe. I had a similar experience years ago on a domestic carrier. I complained twice to the head Stu before take off, and the carrier pulled off the taxiway to deice. I was later thanked by the captain. (Ground crew had lied to flight crew that plane was deiced when it was not. I witnessed the entire affair).

I would file a complaint with the FAA since CZ flies into the US. I would also be careful when going thru China as they may find some way of retaliating against you. Might want to contact the embassy and consulate in PVG and CAN in case they come knocking on your hotel room in the middle of the night. Let them know what happened. Get a local phone number in case. Don't go anywhere in Chicom without a wingman.

DesiPilot 01-21-2013 05:14 AM

I was wondering if this could happen at all the airports and all the Chinese airlines? The other day we were sitting at ICN airport, and everyone was de-icing, Korean air, Asiana, Cathay, Thai, Singapore and of course there were delays for everyone. But I saw all the Chinese airlines taxi out, line up and off they go.

I think it has more to do with keeping your bonuses than airline not allowing deice. I wonder what would happen to your safety bonus when you crash and burn?

xjtguy 01-21-2013 07:31 AM


Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy (Post 1333757)
To be fair to the guys in question (who no longer have jobs), they didn't overfly. ATC made them fly past the airport and populated areas to perform a series of confidence maneuvers. Every knows what they did wrong but nobody has heard the story of [b]what ATC and the company screwed up.Remember, it is almost always a chain of mistakes that lead to an accident.

True. I can't remember, didn't ATC repeatedtly call them and the calls went unanswered?

Also, if, again IF that was the case, who's to say they would have answered an ACARS or SelCall (if applicable) message from company?

I'm not bashing those guys. But sadly it's been proven, at the end of the day, the responsibility falls on the crew.

If it can be passed down to the lowest level/highest profile level of accountability, it will.

And yes, you're right. It would be interesting to see what th fallout was on the ATC/dispatch end was.

rickair7777 01-21-2013 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by Nightflyer (Post 1334171)
According to Google, that flight goes NRT to CAN.

So, you are entering communist China, do you really want to call the Captain to task?:confused:

Perhaps show him the pics you took?:eek:

You might get to meet the local cops, and have a little visit to the big house on some trumped up charges.

They would also take your camera to destroy the evidence.

Personally, I am of the opinion that the OP did the right thing.

Of course, you guys do what you want.

Yeah discretion is the better part of valor when tweaking the nose of a very large and powerful totalitarian regime.

It probably would have been OK, but you could end up PNGed. The OP could still end up PNG if they find out who he is...


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