China Southern so cheap they wont deice
01-28-2013 | 05:03 AM
#71
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 433
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Well nothing more fun that being held hostage to a flight crew that doesnt think physics applies to them. During the recent snow storm in NRT, I was deadheading out on China Southern flt 386. We boarded and had a clean wing, but soon started to accumulate. From boarding to takeoff, was approx 2hr and the company never deiced. I was sure we were going to get squirted at the end of the runway but the pilot whipped onto the runway and immeadiately pushed up the power. I would estimate we had 2inches of clutter on the wings on takeoff roll. At 10000 ft we still had 20% of the wing covered with ice. See links for photos. First one was about 60 minutes before takeoff when he configured. By takeoff it was 2 to 3 times as thick. Second picture is during climbout after about 10minutes.
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/...psa47fccd5.jpg
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/...psee32e5b1.jpg
I know Fedex wants to save money on airfares, but this was outright dangerous, and I feel lucky to be alive. There were four fedex crewmembers on board this flight that might not have been here if Boeing hadn't made such an awesome wing on their 737. I've filed a ops report as have several of the other guys, I just hope we stop using these guys. Pl
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/...psa47fccd5.jpg
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/...psee32e5b1.jpg
I know Fedex wants to save money on airfares, but this was outright dangerous, and I feel lucky to be alive. There were four fedex crewmembers on board this flight that might not have been here if Boeing hadn't made such an awesome wing on their 737. I've filed a ops report as have several of the other guys, I just hope we stop using these guys. Pl
01-28-2013 | 06:13 AM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 470
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From: Couch Potato
Am I the only one thinking- Man, we have been wasting a huge amount of money and time on this whole deicing business- after seeing this? I saw that Russian Airbus video a few months ago, and now this. ***? I thought something like one-one-millionth of a centimeter of frost can reduce your lift by 800%. Maybe the deicing fluid industry is in bed with the FAA? Screw it, I'm not wasting any more time at the deice pad ever again. I'm going 'Chinese Style'!
MG2
01-28-2013 | 08:01 AM
#74
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Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Knuckle-dragging line pilot
Am I the only one thinking- Man, we have been wasting a huge amount of money and time on this whole deicing business- after seeing this? I saw that Russian Airbus video a few months ago, and now this. ***? I thought something like one-one-millionth of a centimeter of frost can reduce your lift by 800%. Maybe the deicing fluid industry is in bed with the FAA? Screw it, I'm not wasting any more time at the deice pad ever again. I'm going 'Chinese Style'!
01-28-2013 | 11:09 AM
#75
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Joined: May 2007
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Correct. The real problem wasn't ice on the wings, it was ice on the EPR probes due to the crew not turning on engine anti-ice. Actual thrust at T/O was something like 60%. Ice on the wings didn't help.
01-28-2013 | 02:48 PM
#76
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 244
Likes: 19
From: MD-11 Guru
Between the power setting mentioned above and the MD-80 wing having issues, we have waaay too many procedures and derivatives of fluid formulas. Common sense, what? no! We need to deice every single aircraft with type IV safeco double deluxe industrial hold anytime Ewins says there could be a 5 minute delay due to frost for the night sort........and fly into the sort no matter what, even if there is 6 inches of clear ice in the forecast.....
01-28-2013 | 05:06 PM
#77
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,569
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From: 747 captain
I work in Japan, not China mind you but I do fly in and out of China a lot. For what I have seen (and I couldn't care less, not defending anybody) airlines in China tend to be way too conservative in terms of their de-icing, I have seen them de ice even when there is no need to. I have a feeling there is a problem with this particular crew and not necessarily with the company's safety culture per say.
01-29-2013 | 06:06 AM
#78
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 395
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From: MD-11
You have to wonder, with respect to CZ, what else they miss because they obviously do not understand the physics behind flying airplanes. Typical push button mentality of these fly-by-night airlines.
So, does ALPA have any input into what carriers we deadhead on? Isn't safety our number one priority (or is it VEBA, I get confused sometimes).
01-29-2013 | 07:02 AM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,429
Likes: 14
Am I the only one thinking- Man, we have been wasting a huge amount of money and time on this whole deicing business- after seeing this? I saw that Russian Airbus video a few months ago, and now this. ***? I thought something like one-one-millionth of a centimeter of frost can reduce your lift by 800%. Maybe the deicing fluid industry is in bed with the FAA? Screw it, I'm not wasting any more time at the deice pad ever again. I'm going 'Chinese Style'!
01-29-2013 | 07:21 AM
#80
just past ETP
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 517
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From: Cruise Captain
add Aeroflot to your list.. when I was at Gemini we had a few airlines on our no-fly list, and those were two... As a side note, I flew into Almaty Kazakstan quite a bit and they'd always look at us strange when we wanted to de-ice our 747's when they had some frost on the wings... some would actually try to argue we didn't need it... sigh.
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