jungle

Gentlemen, when you are talking about unity you can be sure that those making decisions are not too worried about lanyards and pins or causes bigger than their egos.

They are looking at vote splits, what is voted on, what is not allowed to be voted on and the rate of participation in voluntary offerings.

Anything else is just fantasy.

Gunter

Nice bit of levity to lighten the mood. I chuckled appropriately

Patches

This is right on. Unfortunately for FedEx...there are roughly 68% of us that will vote for anything put in front of their/our faces. If I were negotiating for the Company...that is the information that I will be counting upon. How hungry are the lemmings for open time, draft, & DPs? And, limit the language that gets voted upon to what the gullible 68% will buy.

appDude

Only the negotiating committee can protect us from ourselves by not bringing a mixed bag of nuts to the table.

4A2B

It must not be much fun being a pilot who is smarter than the vast majority of the guys you work with? Always being right and saying "I told you so" must get old.

Or could it be that the 68% of the "gullible" pilots believe in the process and trust the Union Reps that bring us the deals we vote on? No, that is just crazy talk, I know. I am not saying the "gullible" ones don't or should not adsorb the info and make their own choices.

It gets pretty old hearing on these strings, over and over again, on how the minority side of a vote think they are smarter than everyone else. I have not voted yes on everything BTW, in fact probably 50% of the deals in the last 16 years.

Patches

Fun is not the best descriptor - frustrating - fits better. Listening to Hub Turn meetings with Bob and Dave discussing LOAs, and I cannot believe what I'm hearing. Then talking to some after the vote and hearing that they didn't even read and consider the offer. Blindly listening to representatives without critical analysis before voting is the sad part. "I told you so" is not the intention. Pointing out past efforts that fell short so that we don't repeat is the goal. In the meantime...I get patronized with discussions of lanyards.

That trust was rattled with the LOA agreement and then bidding the 777 with no pay rate. Not expecting perfection here - cautiously optimistic that this current team is going to pull this off. My negotiating team speaks for me....right up until the vote. Then I speak for myself and what I perceive to be best for the pilot group.

The minority may or may not be smarter - irrelevant. Hindsight indicates to me that 32% voted better, and that type of thinking may be required again.

Huck

32% thought they could send Bob and Dave back in to get a better deal from Paul and Jack. The rest of us thought there was no chance in hell of that happening.

So then what? I kept asking that question back then, and the answers always started with, "Well, first we'll replace the MEC...." And that's when I stepped off the crazy train.....

And by the way, the 777 HAS a pay rate. It's called grid payments + w/b pay. My pay went up 6-10 hours a month because of it. But don't let that ruin the urban legend.

So... As soon as the contract's amendable, technically, NO aircraft will have a payrate. So nobody bid anything.....

PicklePausePull

Thank you, FDXLAG. You understand the argument.

PicklePausePull

And I suppose you are happy with the members of congress over the past decade? After all, the majority put them in office too. It also gets pretty old hearing the status quo people tell the minority opposition to just shut up and take it. would you agree that the 32% have been correct on a quite few issues?

4A2B

No I am not happy with Congress, far from it. I am not saying just shut up and take it either, what I am saying is stop playing the past battles and work on affecting change in the next one instead. Of course we have to look at the past to try and not make the same type of errors but this infighting over stuff we can't change hurts us going forward.

I am still pretty angry over lots of the same stuff that is bantered here (Age 65, 777, 4a2b....) but the just like congress I find it more useful and productive to participate in call to actions and bother my Reps at ALPA on how I think the next issues should be handled.