Pickle, a step towards unity would be everyone doing something as simple as wearing pins and lanyards. Perhaps subsequent steps would lead to more concrete things like not flying DPs or draft. But it starts with the first step. Yet you won't even do that? You want "someone" in the union to go straight to the DP flyer but you aren't even willing to start with the basics? Grow up.

 

Grow Up? Now that’s an intelligent comment.

A step toward unity would be to find the lanyard wearing ALPA members and give them some encouragement not to fly DP’s. You could also call them names if you like, if that makes you feel better.

 

Thank you for your service, FamilyATM. I do understand the idea behind wearing the lanyard, and thank you for your clarifications. I simply disagree that it does anything concrete, and find the incessant harping about it symptomatic of misguided leadership.

Picketing, however, is a public demonstration that has some serious consequences, at least to the company’s (and the pilot groups’) image, and can be an effective tool, properly timed.

Your last point, I believe, is the most important. We are in negotiations now. Real unity is to get those flying DP’s to stop. Real unity is to agree not to bid the 767 without a pay rate and written agreement by the company on its implementation, before the bid. Real unity is to get the fired four back, seeing as how their termination is directly related to the garbage FDA agreement the union backed, twice!

Your idea that we start with something simple, like lanyards, is I think, way too immature an idea (not you, the idea) for a group of pilots already in their third contract. We’ve been there and done that. It ’s like reverting to cub scout neckerchiefs when you’re already serving in the military. We need meat, not slogans, or symbols.

A mature crew force needs more than neckerchiefs. We’re looking for real leadership. The past is also important to many of us, because, just like our elected politicians, past performance has a big impact on future trust.

I suppose I’m in the minority on this issue, at least on this board. But I think the emphasis should be on tough measures that create real power at the negotiating table. That is what will earn us a good contract. And I don’t see any real effort by the leadership to help police those areas that would produce the greatest results. Instead, some pilots are called names, like on the playground, because they wear a different Identity card holder.

Fraternally,

PPP

 

For Family ATM +1

We are Officially in Section 6.

There are 2 Teams (at least until a Contract is inked), ALPA and the Corporation.

ALPA is simply asking to Pick your Team. It is a simple choice really: Us or Them.

Unity cannot be over stated. Unity begins with Trust in each other as was so eloquently stated by FamATM.

During Section 6 Negotiations, A request to Wear a ALPA lanyard, PIN or a Sticker or Bag Tag is an easy simple task and a it is a No brainer. As was stated, Will these simple acts secure a Contract? No. But they do show resolve, both to each other and more importantly to the Company.
While at the Table, the Company Negotiators look directly past our NC Team and look directly at us, the Line Pilot. What they see there determines movement at the Negotiating Table.
If they see 50% wearing lanyards, how much movement do you think compared to if 100% of us wear one? And when and if The NC asks for more support, again, the Company will first look past our NC to see what the 4600 do. Actions speak louder than words. If the 4600 (or 90% +) comply, it is a safe bet that there will be more movement at the table than if only 50% of the 4600 Comply.

"Every Communication" the Union puts out is noted (and no doubt copied and filed) by Corporate Labor Relations.

When the Union asks its 4600 Pilots to do something, the Company takes note .Believe me , they pay attention. If the Union makes a simple request of the Pilots (like wearing a Lanyard or Pin) and say only 50 + 1% comply, believe me the Company takes note. When there is a Vote and only 39% of the Membership participates, the Company also takes note and likes what they see.

FamilyATM described the Trust issue perfectly. If a Large percentage Membership (90% +) always complies with a a Union request for support, not only does it send a Message to the Company that we are Unified, it also reinforces the confidence between the 4600 and assures each of us that we are ready, willing able to do what it takes to get a contract.

If the Union asks us to wear "ALPA" Lanyards and Pins, we do it. because we are on a team. Teams wear Uniforms. During Negotiations, the Pin and the Lanyard or Stickers and Bag Tags (if requested) are our Uniform.

I agree with the flying DP's doesn't help, however, most of the Voluntary flown DP's are by the same individuals and a small %.

I apologize for long rant. Just got to hotel after long night and it is time for bed.

 

First, I see the axe you have to grind. Not happy with our leadership.

You make my second point. There will be a time for tough measures. Especially if they keep pushing PBS. There will be consequences and it must be well timed. I don't think the time has arrived but you do.

I also get the idea that you don't care if we start looking like one group because it will remind you of Cub scouts. Sorry you had a bad experience but you have to let it go.

 

Originally Posted by PicklePausePull View Post

Picketing, however, is a public demonstration that has some serious consequences, at least to the company’s (and the pilot groups’) image, and can be an effective tool, properly timed.

We’re looking for real leadership.

But I think the emphasis should be on tough measures that create real power at the negotiating table. That is what will earn us a good contract. And I don’t see any real effort by the leadership to help police those areas that would produce the greatest results.

So did I see you at the union meeting the other day so you could voice your displeasure to the leadership? I was there and the MEC took some hard questions. They did not resort to calling people out who disagreed ed with them like I have seen in the past from some of the former Negotiation Chairs. Do I agree with everything they do NO but it is our team vrs the companies. Again how hard is it to just wear the lanyard and press DP flyers to see the error of their ways.

 

It looks like my viewpoint isn’t getting across here, so I’ll "go quietly into that night.” Good luck to us all during section 6 negotiations. Give hell to the DP flyers, especially the hypocrites wearing their lanyards. And remember, PBS is a non starter!

 

I must tread very carefully here. I realize that I take a risk of changing Gunter's mind by agreeing with him. I spoke with Laughing_Jakal yesterday, and as it turns out, this makes two things we agree on in as many months. I'll tread carefully.


"The lunacy is explaining it away." AMEN!


I am really astounded by the level of energy that has been expended in inventing and justifying reasons to DISREGARD THE SPECIFIC REQUEST FROM THE NEGOTIATING COMMITTEE. You know, the same body of people which we claims, "SPEAKS FOR ME." Apparently, that means they speak for me, but they don't speak TO me, because I'm too much of an individual to comply with their simple requests.

I'm reminded of the man who refuses to go to church because he knows there are hypocrites who go to church.


So, anyway, I just have a couple of questions to ask. These are questions for the pilot who has heard the Negotiating Committee's request to wear an ALPA lanyard, and who has chosen to instead wear a different lanyard. If you're wearing a Mariine Corps lanyard, or a lanyard depicting your favorite sports team or alma mater or aircraft manufacturer ...

First, why do you wear that other lanyard? Don't confuse this with, "Why do you not wear the ALPA lanyard?" What is the purpose of wearing your lanyard? Does wearing the USMC lanyard make it a better Corps, or does it make out country more safe? Does wearing the Western Pennsylvania Business School lanyard improve the quality of its new graduates? Does wearing the South Carolina State Womens Softball lanyard help them win games? Does wearing the 2011 World Series Champs lanyard earn you a share of a ring? Does wearing the Philadelphia Eagles lanyard give them another chance to make it to the Super Bowl this year? Seriously, what does wearing your favorite lanyard accomplish?

Second, do you wear team paraphernalia, fly a team flag, or display team colors when you watch your favorite team on TV? Do you have a custom license plate frame, or a decal on your window? Do you have a team mug or a door mat or maybe even a room painted in team colors? Do you cheer from your living room? Do you yell at the refs through the TV, curse the opponent, and congratulate your team when they're winning? Do you really think what you do in your home makes a difference in how the game will end? Why do you do it?



It's a baby step. Apparently we still have a lot of babies.







.

 

If you want a little hope... a 777 DP trip has been open in the right seat for at least two weeks. A SIN layover no less.

Many of the F/O's not picking it up were MD11 F/O's in Memphis with me in 2005-6 when we all quit picking up open time. Nice to know we're still on the bandwagon.

As for the captain's seat- it was picked up within 48 hours by one of our regular DP flyers/calendar blockers....

 

Just curious.

If you get called for draft, and the trip is disputed, does it hurt the SIG to take it at draft?

This has not happened, but if it did, I would like to know the "right" thing to do.

I would not fly it at regular pay, but draft would be tempting, if I wouldn't hurt the SIG.

I could take that trip at regular pay, but I won't.

I hope they have to give it to a reserve.