Sell your soul for $20 per day..... FDX
07-29-2013, 06:31 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 777 Captain in Training
Posts: 1,457
Originally Posted by HKFlyr
I'm just happy we got just culture, oh yeah, and they working hard to communicate better. At least they are communicating...not much from ALPA...
Still have 4 fired in HK
Mechanics can book positive space jumpseats in the cockpit over the phone without PIC permission in hand...(pilots can't...)
Bid line spread disparitites are huge
No MOU or LOA on protections regarding issues on the IPAD
Quality Checks...oops, it is like LOSA...but treat like a line check...***?
(and nothing but crickets chirping from Kirby and Poplar...I understand why they are close to a decertification of ALPA at Delta...money better spent in house than on funding a bunch of clowns in DC that can't spell CARGO)
Air Wisconson has Known Crew Member...but we can't afford it?
But I don't blame the company for trying to save money...(even when they are sending LCA's from Memphis to line check guys in HK)
Not much trust anywhere, I'm afraid.
Would love to see some leadership from our dues money to show that we are trying to fix some of these issues, confront them head on, instead of the canned Top 10 Q and A from our chairman on "unity for dummies". (how about a real negotiations update, with real details, instead of vague talking points)
But hey, $20.00 a day - knock yourself out - (do you get a free hot dog?)
Still have 4 fired in HK
Mechanics can book positive space jumpseats in the cockpit over the phone without PIC permission in hand...(pilots can't...)
Bid line spread disparitites are huge
No MOU or LOA on protections regarding issues on the IPAD
Quality Checks...oops, it is like LOSA...but treat like a line check...***?
(and nothing but crickets chirping from Kirby and Poplar...I understand why they are close to a decertification of ALPA at Delta...money better spent in house than on funding a bunch of clowns in DC that can't spell CARGO)
Air Wisconson has Known Crew Member...but we can't afford it?
But I don't blame the company for trying to save money...(even when they are sending LCA's from Memphis to line check guys in HK)
Not much trust anywhere, I'm afraid.
Would love to see some leadership from our dues money to show that we are trying to fix some of these issues, confront them head on, instead of the canned Top 10 Q and A from our chairman on "unity for dummies". (how about a real negotiations update, with real details, instead of vague talking points)
But hey, $20.00 a day - knock yourself out - (do you get a free hot dog?)
They have gone to FAA national regarding the jumpseat issue. I have asked you once and I will again what would you have them do, as they do not control how jumpseats are scheduled.
The Chairman sent out a email on 7/12 stating they were grieving the Fleet Check Airman issue.
The Ipad is issued by the company not sure what they could do to stop it. I do think they should have grieved the training we received, especially the splitting of two required LMS modules so they would not have to pay us.
Yes unfournatlly we still have 4 fired not sure what you want the union to do. They gave them advice and only one took it and she is back. I would think it is now a civil matter but since I am not a lawyer I cannot say that is so.
07-29-2013, 07:20 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 334
Excellent
Originally Posted by HIFLYR
I know you feel disgust towards the union because you bid HKG but they have sent info out on at least two of your gripes.
They have gone to FAA national regarding the jumpseat issue. I have asked you once and I will again what would you have them do, as they do not control how jumpseats are scheduled.
The Chairman sent out a email on 7/12 stating they were grieving the Fleet Check Airman issue.
The Ipad is issued by the company not sure what they could do to stop it. I do think they should have grieved the training we received, especially the splitting of two required LMS modules so they would not have to pay us.
Yes unfournatlly we still have 4 fired not sure what you want the union to do. They gave them advice and only one took it and she is back. I would think it is now a civil matter but since I am not a lawyer I cannot say that is so.
They have gone to FAA national regarding the jumpseat issue. I have asked you once and I will again what would you have them do, as they do not control how jumpseats are scheduled.
The Chairman sent out a email on 7/12 stating they were grieving the Fleet Check Airman issue.
The Ipad is issued by the company not sure what they could do to stop it. I do think they should have grieved the training we received, especially the splitting of two required LMS modules so they would not have to pay us.
Yes unfournatlly we still have 4 fired not sure what you want the union to do. They gave them advice and only one took it and she is back. I would think it is now a civil matter but since I am not a lawyer I cannot say that is so.
07-29-2013, 07:51 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 260
Another view of the kingdom...
Originally Posted by HIFLYR
I know you feel disgust towards the union because you bid HKG but they have sent info out on at least two of your gripes.
They have gone to FAA national regarding the jumpseat issue. I have asked you once and I will again what would you have them do, as they do not control how jumpseats are scheduled.
The Chairman sent out a email on 7/12 stating they were grieving the Fleet Check Airman issue.
The Ipad is issued by the company not sure what they could do to stop it. I do think they should have grieved the training we received, especially the splitting of two required LMS modules so they would not have to pay us.
Yes unfournatlly we still have 4 fired not sure what you want the union to do. They gave them advice and only one took it and she is back. I would think it is now a civil matter but since I am not a lawyer I cannot say that is so.
They have gone to FAA national regarding the jumpseat issue. I have asked you once and I will again what would you have them do, as they do not control how jumpseats are scheduled.
The Chairman sent out a email on 7/12 stating they were grieving the Fleet Check Airman issue.
The Ipad is issued by the company not sure what they could do to stop it. I do think they should have grieved the training we received, especially the splitting of two required LMS modules so they would not have to pay us.
Yes unfournatlly we still have 4 fired not sure what you want the union to do. They gave them advice and only one took it and she is back. I would think it is now a civil matter but since I am not a lawyer I cannot say that is so.
My opinion and view. (Last I knew, I am allowed to have one)
I told you what I would have them do. Observe, Orient, Decide, Act. In a timely matter. They haven't.
I didn't say disgust. You did. Frustrated at the very least.
Bidding HK
Yes I did, and I knew the LOA well. After living under it, found it to not be worth the paper it is written on...not enforceable, vague language, grey language - but typical of our CBA. And more important things for the other 98% of the crew force to worry about...
We are only 130 pilots.
Jumpseats.
We didn't need to go to FAA in DC. Already ruled upon in the recent past. Enforced at several other properties in recent history. But ask your JUMPSEAT chair, don't take my word on it. The MEC leaders knew this was coming and didn't act till well after the FCIF was out on it. Too little too late. SS knew it was coming and did the ostrich act, his head in sand and didn't respond on it for a long time...but yeah, waiting on an answer in Washington.
I'm sticking with the FAR on that one. Easy decision. Mech needs to be on duty, and need for him on the flight deck. FARs don't address personal. On duty, off duty.
iPads, ...IPA had a clue how to proceed...we sure didn't. Training pay, hell, just decent training would have been nice. Agree with your points on that.
FCA's.
Issues that are being grieved now were brought up early by many, and again ignored, until we the have problems we have now with the issue.
The HK issue might have received more attention earlier, but the issue was blown off way in the beginning as two of our three MEC officers were trying to get elected to national office. After they didn't, MEC was wrapped up selling 3% pay raise number one and putting HK issues in the shadows, instead on the front burner. And then pay raise two, 767 LOA. Gave up all leverage. We were told we had no leverage. I beg to differ.
Rumors of more investigations abound. The issue is still being discussed as to what the rules are between the union and the company.
Talk to more HK people about the hearings and advice the accused got. I would have gotten outside counsel also. It will be civil. And I think they will win. (After years in court I'm sure.)
I'm not disgusted, but i am dissatisfied, disappointed, and I expect more. Our leaders react after the fact, slowly, and just seems to plod along.
My 2 cents worth. Time to make Fred some money and enjoy that Lovely CAN catering.
07-30-2013, 06:04 PM
#25
Ok, No more sleeping Dog
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: MD-11, F/O
Posts: 889
Originally Posted by ptarmigan
The NASA report was, eventually, released. The MEC should have it if you want it. However, the issue of that and the Ender's report are red herrings here.
What people are forgetting is that we, ALPA, have equal say in how the data is collected and equal say in all the variables that are considered. The sleep scientists have a reputation that would be wrecked if either tried to play games, and both, ours and the Company's, need to reach consensus on all the variables.
The initial study is not going to show any major results, but was chosen to narrow the scope to make sure that the whole process for collecting the data works. The data will be a small part of the whole package, just a piece of it representing one type of trip, so in addition to testing the processes, it is not wasted data.
We, ALPA, found hard to get real testing to happen to prove these issues. This study is the beginning of that.
What people are forgetting is that we, ALPA, have equal say in how the data is collected and equal say in all the variables that are considered. The sleep scientists have a reputation that would be wrecked if either tried to play games, and both, ours and the Company's, need to reach consensus on all the variables.
The initial study is not going to show any major results, but was chosen to narrow the scope to make sure that the whole process for collecting the data works. The data will be a small part of the whole package, just a piece of it representing one type of trip, so in addition to testing the processes, it is not wasted data.
We, ALPA, found hard to get real testing to happen to prove these issues. This study is the beginning of that.
07-30-2013, 06:40 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Feb 2010
Position: Socket Drawer
Posts: 1,797
I do not trust the Company to use the data to better my safety. If the union thought that it was in my best interest to participate, I would have imagined that they would have at least mentioned it in the Positive Rate today. Sometimes what is not said is really the message.
07-30-2013, 07:19 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B777 Captain
Posts: 566
Originally Posted by The Walrus
I do not trust the Company to use the data to better my safety. If the union thought that it was in my best interest to participate, I would have imagined that they would have at least mentioned it in the Positive Rate today. Sometimes what is not said is really the message.
In May, the SIG put out "The SIG will be participating in the upcoming Fatigue Risk Management Group (FRMG) meeting at the beginning of May. Expect a report from either or both ALPA committees from that meeting."
In the June 11 Positive Rate, you can find the following: "“Fatigue is the best pillow.” You may recognize this statement as a famous quote attributed to Benjamin Franklin.
Data collection is finally coming - line pilots hub-turning through IND in the July bid month will provide initial data to ALPA and FedEx as we begin collecting fatigue data. This study seeks to understand how pilots sleep on all types of FedEx Operations, with this first group of crews forming the “baseline” of domestic night hub turn operations. Pilots who would like to volunteer for this must be awarded a line that turns a minimum of three consecutive nights through IND, with less than a 4-hour turn. Please read the MOU here."
Then in the July SIG notes: "Some IND hub-turning A-300 Crews will be participating in Fatigue Data Collection via wrist-worn actigraphs in July. ALPA FRMC and company members of the FRMG will begin the data collection efforts to measure the alertness of pilots flying IND night hub turns.
In the future, this data will help the company design safer pairings and the PSIT design safer lines. We want to thank you in advance for your voluntary participation in this first of many studies."
07-30-2013, 09:55 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Posts: 260
Not happening...
Originally Posted by ptarmigan
Why put it there when nobody reads any of it? Maybe you should look at them? I am not sure how much more clear they could be.
In May, the SIG put out "The SIG will be participating in the upcoming Fatigue Risk Management Group (FRMG) meeting at the beginning of May. Expect a report from either or both ALPA committees from that meeting."
In the June 11 Positive Rate, you can find the following: "“Fatigue is the best pillow.” You may recognize this statement as a famous quote attributed to Benjamin Franklin.
Data collection is finally coming - line pilots hub-turning through IND in the July bid month will provide initial data to ALPA and FedEx as we begin collecting fatigue data. This study seeks to understand how pilots sleep on all types of FedEx Operations, with this first group of crews forming the “baseline” of domestic night hub turn operations. Pilots who would like to volunteer for this must be awarded a line that turns a minimum of three consecutive nights through IND, with less than a 4-hour turn. Please read the MOU here."
Then in the July SIG notes: "Some IND hub-turning A-300 Crews will be participating in Fatigue Data Collection via wrist-worn actigraphs in July. ALPA FRMC and company members of the FRMG will begin the data collection efforts to measure the alertness of pilots flying IND night hub turns.
In the future, this data will help the company design safer pairings and the PSIT design safer lines. We want to thank you in advance for your voluntary participation in this first of many studies."
In May, the SIG put out "The SIG will be participating in the upcoming Fatigue Risk Management Group (FRMG) meeting at the beginning of May. Expect a report from either or both ALPA committees from that meeting."
In the June 11 Positive Rate, you can find the following: "“Fatigue is the best pillow.” You may recognize this statement as a famous quote attributed to Benjamin Franklin.
Data collection is finally coming - line pilots hub-turning through IND in the July bid month will provide initial data to ALPA and FedEx as we begin collecting fatigue data. This study seeks to understand how pilots sleep on all types of FedEx Operations, with this first group of crews forming the “baseline” of domestic night hub turn operations. Pilots who would like to volunteer for this must be awarded a line that turns a minimum of three consecutive nights through IND, with less than a 4-hour turn. Please read the MOU here."
Then in the July SIG notes: "Some IND hub-turning A-300 Crews will be participating in Fatigue Data Collection via wrist-worn actigraphs in July. ALPA FRMC and company members of the FRMG will begin the data collection efforts to measure the alertness of pilots flying IND night hub turns.
In the future, this data will help the company design safer pairings and the PSIT design safer lines. We want to thank you in advance for your voluntary participation in this first of many studies."
New data won't change anything...otherwise we would be living under the new flight time rules.
Delay and stall. That is all this is. And try get us to negotiate something away in return for safer schedules.
It is all about money. Flight time, duty time, lithium batteries.
Safety costs money.
07-31-2013, 05:59 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Originally Posted by HKFlyr
My opinion and view. (Last I knew, I am allowed to have one)
Rumors of more investigations abound. The issue is still being discussed as to what the rules are between the union and the company.
Talk to more HK people about the hearings and advice the accused got. I would have gotten outside counsel also. It will be civil. And I think they will win. (After years in court I'm sure.)
Word of advice, consider yourself investigation worthy anytime you go to work. The housing allowance wickets are too much of a temptation for the company to make money by denying it. You'll never see me bid HKG.
Outside counsel didn't do so well. The union advice was to take the deal and keep your job. You're going to have to define "winning" a civil suit.
More than likely, if they get a decent settlement, part of it will be you can't come back to work ever. If the settlement exceeds their probable lifetime earnings and retirement it might be considered a win. With their youth I doubt this will be the case. The stress of working on that project would never be worth it to me.
07-31-2013, 06:22 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: B777 Captain
Posts: 566
Originally Posted by HKFlyr
You actually believe they will design safer lines? They have had the data and recommendations for years...and no changes...
New data won't change anything...otherwise we would be living under the new flight time rules.
Delay and stall. That is all this is. And try get us to negotiate something away in return for safer schedules.
It is all about money. Flight time, duty time, lithium batteries.
Safety costs money.
New data won't change anything...otherwise we would be living under the new flight time rules.
Delay and stall. That is all this is. And try get us to negotiate something away in return for safer schedules.
It is all about money. Flight time, duty time, lithium batteries.
Safety costs money.
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